Cold Open

SPEAKER_00 0:00

Welcome to Live Let Thrive, a podcast about the Airbnb life, the share economy, and everything in between. Here are your hosts, Micah and Steve.

SPEAKER_07 0:12

Hello, hello, hello. And welcome back to another exciting episode of Live Let Thrive.

SPEAKER_06 0:23

What is up, Micah? Man.

SPEAKER_07 0:24

I'm good, Stevie Stacks. How you doing?

SPEAKER_06 0:27

I'm doing great on this beautiful Wednesday in here in uh North Texas. Uh, and this is your favorite short-term, mid-term, long-term passport podcast in the world coming at you from Fort Worth in Arlington.

SPEAKER_07 0:42

Let's go, man. We got an exciting episode today. Tell them what's going on, Steve.

SPEAKER_06 0:46

This is

Why This Episode Is Different: Julie George's Mastermind

SPEAKER_06 0:47

episode 357, I believe. Yeah. And um, this is yeah, this is a little bit of a different episode because uh we we were chatting with Julie George and she's like, hey, y'all hop on my mastermind, and and maybe y'all can make it to a podcast. I was like, Oh, okay, cool. So we uh we hopped on her mastermind. They happen to be talking about the new Airbnb rules, uh, about you know, you can't ask your people to clean the house anymore or do the dishes or take the trash out, and then you can't get their personal information no more and their phone numbers and all that. We talked all the new rules that Airbnb dropped. And we did little Julie George, you know, she'd been on the show a few times, million-dollar host, uh, mastermind. She invited us, and so we we hopped on and we had a had a good time and learned some uh really cool stuff.

SPEAKER_07 1:31

Yeah, it was really good, really informative. Um, we're gonna let you guys listen to it. And uh, after you guys listen to it, we're gonna give our thoughts on the conversation. And we're some really good operators on there, operators doing some high-end things. So we're gonna let you guys listen to it, and you guys tell us what you think. And we're gonna, me and Steve are gonna go back and forth and let you know what we thought about it.

SPEAKER_06 1:51

All right. Well, here it is. Enjoy

Steve on STR, Corporate Rentals and PadSplit

SPEAKER_06 1:53

doing. I have short-term rentals, I manage short-term rentals, corporate rentals, I have pad splits now. So I've been doing everything right. And Micah's been doing the same thing, uh, except for the pad splits. So we've been in the industry for a while. Julie George has been on the show a few times on our show, and yeah, we just love talking about Airbnb, short-term rentals, midterm rentals,

What PadSplit Is, for a Global Audience

SPEAKER_06 2:13

all that fun stuff.

SPEAKER_02 2:15

Steve, tell me about pad splits. It's not a term that is often heard outside the US. So can you just explain what pad splits are for um the global audience?

SPEAKER_06 2:25

So pad split is um pretty much just it's co-living. So, you know, so you get a house, and the object is to add as not not add as many rooms as possible, add rooms to the house, right? So I have like three-bedroom, two-bath houses, I'll turn them into like six-bedroom, two-bath houses, and and rent out each room. And Pad Split is like the is like the Airbnb of co-living, right? It's the biggest platform out there. So um people just you know they pay around seven to seven hundred dollars to eight hundred dollars a month per room, and you just um and you just manage it uh that way as a as a co-living environment.

SPEAKER_02 3:01

And a lot more work though, I would imagine.

SPEAKER_06 3:04

So yeah, is it worth it's it's it's different. You're dealing with different personalities. Um, yeah, I've seen some crazy stuff in that. I don't know why I started that. I just thought that that'd be you know good material for the show.

SPEAKER_04 3:16

So is it minimum minimum stay one month or so?

SPEAKER_06 3:21

They encourage, like when someone books, they encourage you to do three months initial stay, right? Got it and and to pay the the regular rent. Now you could pay extra on top of that, and then you could be more flexible and you can move around after a few weeks or a month, and you can switch, you could transfer to another pad split or whatever you want to do. But they try to encourage the the initial three months out of place.

Share Houses in Japan

SPEAKER_04 3:42

I mean, it's similar to the share accommodation, so that you know, the share houses here in Tokyo or in Japan in general. Um, share houses you know, like uh really popular, especially for students and um migrant workers. Um and you know, people that are, you know, and usually you know, five, six bedroom houses you'll get somebody usually you'll get people of the same, you know, if they're from the same country, you know, like uh we have a lot of migrant workers here, so um, and they don't and unfortunately they don't get paid very well, um, and they're under strict visa rules. So they tend to sort of hang out together and work in factories together. So it's um that's for I I work with a couple of clients who see this as a better ROI for their real estate investments than it is for STR. Um and um yeah, it's a it's it's a really interesting model. Um, but it's it's usually you know word of mouth. And you so you're saying that you've made a like you've made an app, a booking app for that?

SPEAKER_06 4:50

So it's an app that exists. Uh it's it's been around for like five or six years already, but it's starting to like gain a lot of steam now, become more popular now.

SPEAKER_04 4:59

And also because the housing crisis, it's a sort of a really you know good way of like using, you know, like using real estate assets in a different way. Yeah.

PadSplit Where You Can't Airbnb: $1,900 Rent vs $4,000+

SPEAKER_06 5:09

And I'll and I'll say this too, because I the three houses that I that I do uh the path split in were um are in places where you can't do Airbnb or short-term rentals.

SPEAKER_08 5:19

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 5:20

And so, and so I've actually um and one of them was was down the road from me that they banned Airbnb, short-term rentals, whatever. And so I had it as a regular long-term rental, and the other two houses, um, same thing. And when it works best, I'll say this, it works best in like C class areas, C plus areas, so not the best areas, but not the worst areas, you know, in a war zone either. So, whereas you won't be getting so let's say in those areas I would get a regular around $1,900 a month with $2,000 a month rent. I'll make you $4,000 over $4,000 a month by doing it this way, by separate by adding a few rooms and then renting it out by the room. So it's more profitable. And it and and I do it in areas where you can't do short term because I I prefer corporate and short term, but I mean these houses were not making me a lot of money, and I wasn't getting a lot of good you know people in there, to be honest. So I've uh I did I'm doing this now, and uh it kind of you know, it kind of like um coincides with Airbnb letting us um uh taking away more uh oversight over our properties. Whereas uh Pasplit, they let you you can examine these people all you want, you can run them through any um softwares and apps and background checks.

Co-Living for Professionals

SPEAKER_06 6:33

Airbnb, and it seems like we keep rolling the dice more and more the the more freedoms they take away from it. So it's uh it's a it's a it's a good option.

SPEAKER_04 6:41

Is it Jules? Is it in Brisbane? Because I actually have a number of friends who have moved out of STR and have gone into co-living for professionals, and there's even real estate agencies like like building properties that that are fit for this purpose because it's just such a good ROI. Um that they're actually putting in, you know, there's a lot of single like single person families. So, you know, you've got doctors and lawyers and whatever living, living, co-living like this. Um, and I think it's a really interesting segment. Um, it's a really interesting segment. So yeah, it's it's really popular here. Um, but I've never seen, never seen the app, so I don't think it's it's a thing here. Um but yeah, cool.

SPEAKER_02 7:25

I really knew. I mean, we've up in Cairns where I am, we've got a lot of backpackers and chair hostels and that type of thing. I tried it once with one property that we had come in just because of the layout of this property. It sounded really good. It was a hell of a lot of work, and I had to do a lot of stickers in the fridge to tell people whose food was whose. Um, but it was it worked pretty well. Um Ashley, you've just popped in the chat. You've got one in Wisconsin. Uh Ash, are you able to unmute and tell us about your experience?

SPEAKER_03 7:57

Yeah.

A 12-Bedroom PadSplit Turned Midterm Rental

SPEAKER_03 7:58

So uh we bought a uh the guy who did it took a quadplex and turned it into a pad split. So he basically combined everything, made it all connected. So you can walk in the front door and it you can get through the whole property from from the front entrance. But um, it's 12 bedroom, six bath, and he was running it under pad split. And um I I do midterm rental and short-term rental. So I actually bought it and um finished furnishing it because he had he had bed frames in there, mattresses and like nightstands, but he didn't have anything beyond that. And he was renting it by the room, obviously. But I came in and finished furnishing everything. I'm a designer too, so we um, you know, wallpapered some of the walls and paint and put down really nice rugs. And I actually rented out the same way, but I rent it to I I got off the pad split platform and I rent it to traveling professionals now. So as midterm rentals. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 8:56

So where how are you getting those people like where are they finding you on your direct site?

SPEAKER_03 9:01

Or how yeah, so I've been doing midterm since um 2019. So I've been around quite a while and people just know my name now. And I'm on a lot of travel travel agency sites and and the people that actually book the pre professionals. And so, you know, we get repeat bookings and um word of mouth, I ask for referrals. You know, nurses talk to each other. So um I do ask for referrals as well. So and I have a direct book website and we're also on Furnished Finder. So

56 Midterm Units at 97% Occupancy

SPEAKER_03 9:31

yeah. So between that, um, I have about 56 midterm rental units that I either own or manage. I own some of them and I manage some. Um, and we are about 97% occupancy across the portfolio. So wow.

SPEAKER_02 9:47

Actually, what's the name of your business again? Sorry, I shouldn't know that, but uh that's okay.

SPEAKER_03 9:51

Uh Clear Trail Properties.

SPEAKER_02 9:53

Clear Trail Properties. Okay.

SPEAKER_03 9:55

Yeah, and and we're in Wisconsin.

SPEAKER_02 9:57

Perfect. Just in case we want to uh cyber stalk you.

SPEAKER_03 10:00

So clear Yeah, yeah, go ahead.

SPEAKER_02 10:02

And I think this is great because what we you know, the ultimately this mastermind is about sharing these strategies, what's working, what's not working. Um look at, you know, it was it was in the hard basket for me personally. But um, JT, I'm gonna put you on the spot. You uh this is your first call too, but um you've got a number of properties with host type. And are you doing pad splits at all?

SPEAKER_05 10:25

Is this something that you're no, I'm familiar with pad split. Um I think uh um uh let's see, what was the sorry, I forgot the name of the guy. I think uh Stevie. Stevie makes a great point. Um, because obviously, especially right now, SDR regulations are all over the place. So I think it's really a

100+ Airbnbs and Insurance Stays After the LA Fires

SPEAKER_05 10:47

great uh um kind of like if if your Airbnb gets banned, I think PadSplit is a good option um instead of you or midterm, any either of those two. I'm very familiar with um uh furnished finder. So out of our so we have 100 plus Airbnbs that we own and manage. Uh we probably have 10% of those in midterm. Um we we are unique in a way where we only deal with like high-end properties, especially properties that we own, making upwards of half a million a year. So we're we're we we we we just like uh kind of like concentrate on that area. So even our midterm are probably pulling in like 10,000 a month because they're like bigger properties or or norm sometimes beach fund bigger properties. The main um one of the main sources for our midterm, aside from Furnish Finder, is getting connected to a lot of insurances. If you are connected with a lot of insurances, it's just a lot easier transition. Like, especially for example in LA when the fires were obviously happened, like we were really like fully booked because insurances are like moving these people while their houses are being built if they had insurance, so stuff like that. Um, personally.

SPEAKER_02 11:58

So I'm so distracted by Micah's gigantic water bottle. Um sorry, JT. I was listening to you, but I was like, is this a cartoon? Um I'm gonna call on you now because you apart from drinking from like a barrel, um you connecting with insurance companies too, is it because you do a lot of midterms,

Myka's Short-Term/Midterm Split

SPEAKER_02 12:23

right?

SPEAKER_07 12:24

Yes. Um, I mainly like even with the new regulations, I'm happy that I am in the midterm space because they are still allowing you to at least, you know, implement your rules on midterms. Um, so yeah, I do the short-term midterm split. Uh target midterm, and whenever we don't have a midterm guest, put a short term in there to cover it. And then that that's been working out great for us. We're about like at 90% occupancy doing that. And hey Tracy, I did not know you were on this call. Been a while. Um, but yeah, so yeah, I'm doing the short-term, midterm split as well.

SPEAKER_02 12:56

Yeah, and just let everyone know where are your properties at the moment, Marker and um and how many?

17 Units to 8: Door Count Is Vanity, Profit Is Sanity

SPEAKER_07 13:03

Um mine are in Dallas and Dallas and Arkansas, and we have we've pushed back to about eight profitable ones. We uh were up to like 17, but we were getting the bad ones, and we were like, let's just cut off the 10 bad ones, just get the good ones and grow it like that. Pumpkin plant it.

SPEAKER_02 13:22

Scale up by scaling down. That's something uh that we've really been pushing this the last week at a few conferences that I've been to. You know, you've just got to work out what are your profitable properties, get rid of all the dead wood. Um, check your ego at the door. And one of the quotes that we put out there was door count is vanity, profit is sanity. So door count is vanity, profit is sanity. And Micah, you've just proven the point. It's not about how many properties you've got, but it's about the profit. And you know, are you you're making money at the end of the day? I mean, we're not all doing this for the love of dealing with uh Airbnb and short-term rentals, but uh it's yeah, we've got to look at other options. Um, right. Today though, I really do want to talk about some of the new changes. Gee, Airbnb are not making many friends at the moment, are they? They just keep, it's like someone stirring the plot all the time. So um, so what I want to do, and this is where I really want to throw the conversation to you guys,

Airbnb's Nov 20 Rules: No More Guest Chores

SPEAKER_02 14:27

let's talk about these new rules. They're going to come into effect 20th of November. Um, we there are a few things that are changing. I'm sure all of you are pretty aware of what they are, but if you're not, this is the place that I want you to say, I don't quite understand, or can we explain what's happening? Um the the crux of it is they're they're saying that we can't ask our guests to do a lot of the chores that we're used to. So a couple of things that they're um they are saying, no, we cannot ask anymore is guests to strip beds, guests to wash and put away dishes, guests to take the rubbish out, take the trash out. Um laundry, starting the laundry. Question for all of you guys. I want to know, and you can throw it in the chat, or you can uh please unmute yourself and throw it at me. Are you asking your guests to do this at the moment? And is it going to upset the Apple cart? Are you going to be um yeah, where are we at with asking guests at the moment? How comfortable are you with having them do some of these cleaning chores? Um, Holly, can I throw to you

Dishes for 20 Guests

SPEAKER_02 15:35

at the moment?

SPEAKER_01 15:35

Oh, yeah. Look, we only ask them to do the dishes, as in turning on the dishwasher, they can leave it running, that's fine. But to get it started and to take the rubbish out to the outside bins, that's it. There is one property where they have to take it um to the top of the street because council does don't actually come onto that property. It's 500 acres, and that one's sort of a you can't leave it outside because wilderness, you know, animals and things will get to it. So it has to actually be taken up there. That one, look, we'll probably have to put in the local groundskeeper who does um, you know, the maintenance there. We're figuring, well, we'll have to just pay for him to come on site after each day and take it off if they don't. So um look, that one's not so bad. I really think it's kind of a deflection um from Airbnb, the dishes bit versus, you know, the real pain points of the ID and the rental agreements. That's the site that's going to hurt us. With the bigger properties, like on a small property, if someone leaves the dishes, you know, a studio, one bedroom, you know, so be it. We're talking about four plates. Um, on properties that sleep like 16, 20 guests, which we have, if they don't do their dishes, we're talking a couple of hours. One collecting it from, you know, over three different levels to, you know, who knows what they've used, barbecue, all the, you know, and we also leave, like we don't do guest headcount per cups and plates. You know, if you go into a lot of places, they only have four plates, four forks making you wash your dishes along the way. We put out an excessive amount. So just, you know, we really don't want to be petty and pull it back to saying, okay, there's eight guests, so we're only going to put out eight cups and eight plates. But that's sort of the line that they're leading you towards because, like I said, a large group stay, that's a lot of extra dishes. So um, but yeah, stripping beds, all of that, it's a nightmare. We'd rather they don't touch them. Um, and yeah, you know, towels, yes, we all we ask is that they don't put wet towels on beds, um, that sort of thing. But yeah, typically it's just the dishes that run in the dishwasher. And I think that's a fair call unless you really live on a property that is um rural or something that really needs to have um or you know, boat house, that sort of thing.

SPEAKER_02 17:44

No, good point. Is anybody else um is it affecting any of your businesses right now? Are you asking people to do these tasks?

SPEAKER_04 17:52

No, Trace, you're not then

Trash Rules in Japan and Hosts Under Fire Online

SPEAKER_04 17:54

No, it's it's most I mean, trash obviously in Japan is a big thing and all like we you know, we've got pretty strict rules about making sure that they do sort it correctly, because asking cleaners to sort through mixed trash is nasty and it's not and I mean the way I approach it to people is just like you know, just be respectful of the humans that come after you and um you know don't act like you've been, you know, like a um like a demented squirrel with a credit card, you know, just like you know, just be respectful. Um and we don't we have very, very, very, very few problems, so you know, uh fortunately. Um and it's just that the it's been interesting online because it's like Airbnb lit a match and then just stood back and has been like roasting marshmallows in the fire, right? Like um and it's it's it's open season on hosts at the moment. It's pretty hard to take because it's like you know, it's all all the comedians popping in saying, Oh, you know, the host I can't the host is expecting me to, you know, retile the retile the the bathroom, you know, and it's just like oh come on, you know, um it's like get it out of your systems, all right? Um but um yeah it's it's there's a lot of there's a lot of pylon, so that's that's kind of hard. So it's good that we're all here, all in this together. Um and um but no, we're we're not we're not super affected. Not super affected. Um it's all we were asking people to do is like put your towels in the machine, and if you've got time, put on the machine. But if not, that's okay. Um but yeah, trash is the biggest one.

Missed Bin Days and Rewarding Guests

SPEAKER_01 19:31

Can I add to the trash bit? We have, you know, when you um have a lot of houses, um the other part that we're concerned about is not putting those bins on the street for collection. So if they stay over a week, the issue becomes that now you've got a missed bin or several bins that, you know, on that's typically it's going to be a minimum of an hour charge to have somebody go and collect, you know, put those out and back in for a team member to do that. Um, so you know, way to maybe incentivize the guests to do it rather than, you know, getting somebody on there to do it because they also don't want somebody coming on the property. So it's sort of that really hard balance to say, well, I can't leave two weeks worth of rubbish sitting there, not collected, and then it's the next guest expecting to not go into any rubbish. So, you know, Airbnb really haven't thought that through. Or maybe they have, but yeah.

SPEAKER_04 20:22

How are you incentivizing? Are you saying like we haven't like I'll drop a bottle of wine over? You know, if you do this, I'll, you know, leave a bottle of wine for you, or you know, what's what's the incentive, Holly?

SPEAKER_01 20:31

What are you what are you thinking? We haven't in um implemented anything yet, but for us, rather than um all the negative um aspects that you put on usually by finding all your guests, we're trying to flip it to try and incentivize them to do it in some way, shape, or form, whether it's a local voucher to something,

"Don't Be a Slob" Got Approved

SPEAKER_01 20:47

whatever it is. Like I said, I haven't haven't put it in there yet. But as we can't find them for leaving the barbecue dirty or whatever it is, you know, those sorts of things, we've got to, I guess, be a little crafty with it. I did love there was a um post online they had said about um lots of guests that had, you know, they've been sorry, the hosts that have been trying to put in the different rules to get through the AI. And they'd put, you know, about um, please put your dishes in the um in the sink. We provide, you know, dish liquid and cleaning products that wouldn't go through. And then they'd put under it, don't be a slob, and that got accepted. So, you know, it's like, you know, that's basically what it's going to come down to. You've just got to really um, you know, be crafty with what you're writing in there.

SPEAKER_02 21:30

Okay, cool. JT, let's go to you and then Micah.

No Waivers: A Lawsuit and Insurance Nightmare

SPEAKER_05 21:33

Yes. So for us, I'm not really too worried about the the cleaning part. We we don't really ask any of those to our guests just because obviously, like, I mean, on average, we charge a thousand a night out part to a five five thousand a night and eighty, ninety percent booked across the board out of 20 markets. Even the trash, we don't even like our cleaners are paid extra to put them in and put them out. The main, I think for everyone, I think the main really concern. Here are like, for example, properties that are lakefront that we own, beachfront that we own, amenities that they use, jacuzzi, saunas, kayaks. Now we're not allowed to do waivers. That's a low-suit nightmare. That's an insurance nightmare as well. And we all know like air cover sucks. So most of the time we have we rely on our um insurance, our own insurance, our short-term rental insurance. Um, and actually, this was the thing. I was safe, like one of our clients that we managed got saved because um they were actually um they they they slipped on a pool and all the stuff, but they signed the waiver and there were cameras, so then there was really nothing they could do, right? I think the main like the the the cleaning, I understand that, but that that is a lot more like I I think hosts shouldn't really do that anyways, aside from the most basics. I I mean the trash can obviously, right? That's the most basic. Uh I think that's okay. But the main here is like the waivers and the agreements that now that we can't uh uh ask, and that's just a nightmare when it comes to lawsuits, um, filing claims, right? So, what we're doing right now with the properties that we own, and then also properties that we manage is that it's now figuring out uh especially HOAs. What the H does HOA um uh rules require because Airbnb can't do anything about it, right? If it's an HOA rule or if it's a city rule, for example, uh quiet hours, right? Technically you can say that, but if the city says quiet hours 10 p.m. Airbnb has to go the has to like adhere to that. So that's now what we're doing, a lot of research. HOA, for example, is another big one. Um, especially, for example, we manage in the Poconos and the HOA they're very strict, so we don't really have a problem in that particular market, the Poconos in Pennsylvania. So um now it's all about research and figuring out how do we circumvent um Airbnb. I'm almost tempted to do my own HOAs on my properties. It's just that I'm finding out that's gonna be a lot more headache than it's supposed to be, because then you can circumvent Airbnb's rules. Because if it's the city rule, HOA rule, they have no say to it, right? So I think the more pressing concern really is to is like the safety issues that we can implement anymore. I can have them sign simple waivers if they want to use my pool, or my jacuzzi, or my sauna, or kayaks, for example, or whatever, or even just like a normal swing, right? I normally have amenity waivers that if you use any of the amenity, you're waving your, you know. Thing that's the more pressing, at least that's what I'm more worried about personally, and I think a lot of hosts should be more worried about that as opposed to just the cleaning. We I I personally were not affected because we don't do any of those. We want to make sure that our guest just experience the best hospitality, and then you go and you leave. Um, so I'm not worried about that too much. I think the safety issue is the more pressing um issue there, in my opinion.

SPEAKER_02 25:01

Perfect. And we'll circle back because I know like Holly, you mentioned about the agreement or the yeah, the verification and all that sort of stuff. But Micah, let's go to you first and then we'll

Midterm Trash and Making It a City Issue

SPEAKER_02 25:10

circle back.

SPEAKER_07 25:10

Um I actually agree on the safety thing. Um that's why I kind of brought up I'm happy I'm pushing more towards midterm anyway, because I think they said you can still do it on midterm. Um, the other issue I do have though, going back to the trash thing, is if because if we're targeting mainly midterm and we can't tell them to take the trash out, because that I do tell them, hey, if you're staying on a Tuesday night, just take the trash to the curb. I don't know what the rules are on that. Because if you're saying we're gonna just be let trash pile up and they don't have to do anything and they're just living there, that's uh issue with the city that can turn into a city issue, though. Um, so I don't know if you can word that to maybe be a city issue that hey, no one's there while you're at home, we want to respect your privacy. Could you please take the trash to the curb? So it's just certain things I think that we have to get really creative about. Um, especially like the and then especially even like the on the safety side. Uh if you're gonna use your own insurance every time, they're gonna drop you eventually. You know what I mean? Um so air air cover sucks, but it kind of covers us in certain situations. So I think it's about us like like the groups like this, get together and get creative. Because I I I like the whole, hey, let's see if we can maybe turn certain things into a city issue. I know Steve even talked to me about creating an HOA. So yeah, I um but yeah, my my thing is the midterm people coming in, staying a while, and just not doing anything. I think that's gonna really raise concerns that might bring Airbnb back to the city level where people are saying all this trash is out here. Well, you can start creating these rules, it starts creating, you know, drama downtown, which we don't want.

The 28-Day Exemption and Insurance Bookings

SPEAKER_01 26:45

Well, anything over 28 days, they've said is exempt from it currently.

SPEAKER_07 26:50

Okay, that's good.

SPEAKER_01 26:52

We even if you've got a 20-day, you may have to get a little crafty and push it out as being a 28-day and you know, something like that in the calendar so it looks like it, you know, some of those sorts of ones. We have another issue where we're based that if we don't have approval for short-term rent, they take a minimum of 90 days. We will still take under that, but we have to make it look like a 90-day and then shorten it, which happens a lot with insurance days for where we work. Insurance will only book usually two weeks um in advance at a time. Um, even if someone's house is burnt down, they will just book it in two-week slots. It's an absolute nightmare because then those guests are left usually having to jump around to multiple different properties. So we then push towards the insurance company by saying, hey, book the three months, six months, whatever it is, and with two weeks' notice, we will refund whatever is remaining and open up those dates to try and get them to leave that calendar block open because it's such a hard game of Tetris to try and move bookings around so that the long stay that you want to stay in there can stay there without pissing off everybody else that is booked in for a three-night stay or a five-night holiday. Um, but yeah, that's sort of the only way you can really work around that one. So I think we're gonna have to probably do some work around like that in terms of pushing ones that are close to that 28-day cap. Um, I also um am wondering whether it's possible that your extra amenities outside of fixed amenities, but things like your kayaks, your even saunas, I guess, um, those sorts of ones, whether they can be technically hosted by a third-party company. And so that company requires the um the waiver to be signed. So it's actually aside from you having anything to do with it, you know, this company provides them here. If you want to do it, that's their business, you know, on that. It's then sort of taken off your hands in terms of the booking. Because I know with um us like we can um rent a sauna to be at the property for, you know, several months or things, but they do have to sign a waiver for things. That's actually outside of um, I guess, our insurance, because that company that's actually provided the the hire um or the rental lease to them has a separate rental on top of that. So just wondering whether that might be a workaround with it. I don't know. We haven't put it to the test yet, but and it wouldn't work for everything, including like your pools, but maybe anything that's non-fixed, a spa, a sauna, your kayaks, your electric bikes, any of those things. You know, maybe it would. They can be all padlocked up and then, you know, if they want to go through with that, then here it is.

SPEAKER_02 29:24

So yeah, third party. I like that idea. Um, Ashley, can I come to you?

SPEAKER_03 29:31

Yes,

Building Agreements as a Workaround

SPEAKER_03 29:32

thank you. Um, so we I mean, the checkout cleaning instructions honestly isn't really gonna phase us a whole lot. We our tagline is we sweat the small stuff, so we really don't um have our guests do a whole lot. Uh, but I was on, we've been speaking with the lawyer because obviously the rental agreement, we do collect rental agreement, security deposit, and uh ID. And so one of the ideas that we had maybe talked about, um, one of them was obviously you know forming an HOA, but the other idea was forming um or creating a building agreement where you have a building agreement um for the building. So even if it's a house or condo or whatever it is, um, a building agreement saying that it's required to have, you know, collect ID rental agreement, um, things like that. And that is the agreement that you would upload um to Airbnb. So I just wanted to share that's one of the ideas that we're working through. It isn't finalized, of course, but um that's one of the ideas that we're we're working on. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 30:38

JT, I just saw you nodding at that. Um,

HOA and City Rules Airbnb Has to Follow

SPEAKER_02 30:41

is that something really gonna be?

SPEAKER_05 30:43

Yeah, I think that might work. So one of the things um that my team has been doing is been calling Airbnb, pulling all the shrinks we can pull. Obviously, we have a few employees that are seen former senior case managers in Airbnb. And if you call customer support right now, they're gonna give you different answers every time. Um but one of the things that we consider, uh, Ashley, get a great point, is the building. Because, like, for example, our beach fund Panama City Beach um does require ID. And then we kind of confirm that if that's the case, then the Airbnb has to follow that. I'm not sure how you will justify that if it's a standalone house. Um, but I think PCB though, like aside from the building, it's also a city mandate. So again, that's probably why it's the you know, like I think another thing that is gonna be harder is trying to get like the community if you're on HOA to require that. That way, Airbnb doesn't have a choice. Um, but I think the building might or might not work again, right? I I'm not sure if they're gonna honor that. It's all about it's as at this point. Airbnb will do what they want. Um, I know that for a fact that we know for sure is that HOA rules, city rules, they can't do anything about any other things. It's just a wild, wild west guest right now. So um, so now we're trying to like try to circumvent in in a way where like, hey, what are the HOA rules that we can implement? What are the city rules, sample quiet hours that we can implement? Um, but other than that, the building might work. That's a great idea, actually. We consider that as well. Uh, I just we just don't know how Airbnb is gonna react. Uh me personally, in my opinion, uh, they're not gonna budge about it. I mean, they're gonna probably save the building thing, like unless it's like a whole condo thing, it's been there for a while. I'm not sure. But hopefully it it can be a workaround. If that's a workaround, that's something that um is a possibility.

Will These Rules Attract the Wrong Guests?

SPEAKER_02 32:43

Do you guys think I'm gonna be controversial here for a second, but do you think that by Airbnb putting uh these new house rules out and then all of the social media dis discussions going on? And then maybe we're just ingrained in it because we're on the host side. Is it going to help the like is it making the guests sorry, is it going to attract more guests?

SPEAKER_01 33:04

Are the guests going to think, we've got to attract more of the wrong guests, that's for sure.

SPEAKER_08 33:09

Yes, I agree.

SPEAKER_01 33:10

Um for us, the issue again lies in the bigger properties. So again, we sit in that mid to higher end properties, the big homes that people want to have parties in, or small gatherings, or whatever they want to call them, a baby shower, a you know, a family birthday dinner, whatever it is, but with an excessive amount of people, which means then also an excessive amount of noise, excessive cars, excessive everything. And that's where the issue lies. So I feel they, I mean, they've done themselves an injustice because again, Airbnb has worked really hard in trying to get away from having a bad name from party houses and bucks parties and all of that. They're just reverting to that because that's what's gonna happen. You know, having this um, you know, no limit on guests that can come in the daytime, that sort of thing, um, as long as they don't stay overnight. All it's doing is opening them up to having neighbors complain, to having, you know, um issues with too many cars parked out there, you know, all of those sorts of things are just gonna come back through. Um, and we I guess they're just taking away any of the ability for us to control and um make sure that those the neighborhoods that these places are in, which so many people have an issue with to begin with, because they were scared of this sort of thing happening, that's just going to ramp up. So, and then you get things like the local council saying, well, forget it, you know, what we already approved, they're no longer approved. We're not doing that anymore because you're pissing too many people off.

SPEAKER_02 34:34

So,

ID Checks: Meet-and-Greets and FaceTime

SPEAKER_02 34:36

next point, I guess, is that yeah, the ID, like the guest verification. I know a few of you, Hollyah, you're doing that at the moment, aren't you?

SPEAKER_01 34:45

For every single stay, we always take photo ID. Um, we take the um security bond, which is off-platform security bond, and assigned rental agreement. And we go as far as to make sure you know the ID has to match that person. If it's a last minute across every platform other than Airbnb, we do a selfie with the credit card uh with the um ID to make sure it is who they're saying it is rather than stolen IDs and things. Um we are going to have to adjust that. Um, it's gonna be again the bigger issue on those bigger properties on things like units. Look, we can let that pass because we don't typically have issues um with that sort of thing. And I think they've got easier fish to, you know, fry with those sorts of um problems. But for us on those bigger houses, we either have to go back to the old school days of meet and greet, which again, it's not foolproof as they're saying, hey, you can check them on entry. But if we don't want those people to enter, then where are we at? We lose the booking, we've got a confrontation, you know, there's so many issues with that. Um, again, another workaround I was thinking of is that potentially we may be able to send them some sort of message to say, hey, we will meet meet you at this scheduled time to to verify your ID and that if that time's not going to work for you, hey, maybe you can FaceTime us with your ID or something like that, you know, so that then at least you've still you haven't asked for them to, you know, store it, send it through, but that you can maybe that you've seen it online, you know, screenshot it, whatever you need to do. But at least then you've got to, and if you're doing that in advance, you know, it might give us a little bit of an edge on it. I don't know. That's all we've come up with

What Happens to StayFi, Autohost and Truvi?

SPEAKER_01 36:19

so far.

SPEAKER_02 36:20

So does this mean that companies like TruVie and AutoHost and are they like are they dead and wearing now, or how what's gonna happen with those companies?

SPEAKER_01 36:29

So like Stay Fi, you saw their turnaround and they've now gone to Stay Finder, which I think good on them. That's awesome. You know, they've changed from they're the ones who um to get the Wi-Fi, you have to give your email and your VTAWs to, which you then use to retarget. So Stafi basically dead. They have companies you know gone because they're not allowed to do that for Airbnb anyway. But they've changed over to say, well, now we're going to work on a platform that basically you put in where you want to stay or whatever it is, and it will bring up that link to that property across every platform it's listed on. So you can book the cheapest way possible. So it'll bring up the direct rate, the Airbnb, the booking.com, the Agoda, whatever else, all in one. So I think really clever on their behalf to, you know, to yeah, flip what they're doing. And yeah.

SPEAKER_02 37:15

What have they called themselves for Stay Finder?

SPEAKER_01 37:18

Stay finding okay, cool. I don't know if it's up and running yet, but that was their latest on it that's helpful to get that going.

Why Hosts Aren't United

SPEAKER_05 37:27

I think I saw that update too um for Stefy. But for us, for safety purposes, we have Stay on all the properties we own. We're taking it down because we don't want to technically um you know do any terms of service because we don't know what they're gonna do. Are they gonna suspend your listing, worse ban your listing? So we're not taking that risks. Um, but yeah, I mean that's good. Like um, we've had a conversation, for example, in the very main with Steve Schwab, which I think uh has the most pull, right? Because he has what 42,000 listings because of the acquisition of Wakaza, and even him with the biggest it's not even making like moving the needle, right? So I think Airbnb, just because of their monopoly and like the amount of hosts coming in every day, they just don't care, they're just more guest-centric at this point. So I think and I think I kind of agree with with a few people that I've met, including Steve Schwab. I think the problem with our industry is we're not really united, like at least the hosts, like there's not really kind of like an like like a meeting with all the hosts, and I think if we're all united, it's a lot easier to like move the needle. But because we are kind of like independent from each other, we're not us united, like it's harder to like implement something. That's that's kind of like their their thoughts. Um, I think that's a possible if we can all be united all over the I mean imagine if like every host kind of like band together, I think Airbnb would have no choice, but that again easier said than done, right? So I think that's the the the thing there.

SPEAKER_08 39:03

I got a question, yeah.

Vrbo Still Lets You Check IDs

SPEAKER_06 39:06

Yeah, real quick, and I'll you know hop up. Um so VRBO and booking.com, uh are they allowing y'all uh everybody to do the same stuff? We don't get very many bookings off of VRBO at all, and booking.com we don't use because of all the scammers back in the day. But I was wondering, are those are the are those still allowing people to to check IDs and do the you know put house rules? Yep, only Airbnb.coms. Yeah, it's kind of ironic because all the commercials that we've been fed the last few years are VRBO commercials saying that if you book an Airbnb, they're gonna make you do all these chores, they're gonna make you share a hot tub with somebody you don't know. And uh it's all the VRBR commercials, yet they're the ones that they still allow house rules, they still allow you to check IDs and all that stuff. Yeah, so that uh so oh go ahead, Micah.

Did Vrbo's Commercials Force Airbnb's Hand?

SPEAKER_07 39:53

No, I I was gonna piggyback off that. If I think Airbnb had to respond in a way because I think those verbo commercials were getting to them, verbo, especially over here in the states, verbo is on every single channel, just sending torpedoes at Airbnb, like, oh, you're gonna share this, you're gonna do this. And like if you even look at the rules they created, it's basically in direct correlation to what Virgo is saying about them. Um and I think they had to respond. I don't think this is the way to respond. I think they should have, you know, came about it a little differently. And to go back to Julie's point, I think we do have to start worrying about the companies that are surrounding short-term rentals like the Stay Fis. And I talked to Steve about this last week. Stay Finder might be the reason why they went after the Wi-Fi thing because they're the biggest player in the game on it. And I think the Stay Finder add-on to that, I think they've seen it. Um Airbnb sees the stuff that we're talking about, they've seen it, you know, and where people can start going off the platform and go directly to a site. Um, so I do kind of want to talk to Arthur Koulker about that. I I haven't talked to him in a while, and I want to see what his direction is. Like, what are you planning on doing to stay relevant? Um, but yeah, I just wanted to piggyback off that Steve. I do think that had a lot to do with Airbnb's rule changes.

SPEAKER_02 41:10

And has anyone talked to the truvies or the auto hosts of the world, like the guest verification?

SPEAKER_07 41:16

I did not talk to auto host, but I talked to my friend Vivian, who's real big on using auto host, and she kind of went scorched earth on Airbnb, like, you know, because she does she does do the one night stays in luxury just so she can kind of keep into the algorithm. Um, but she does that through auto host. So I don't know what they're doing either. I I do want to get I do want to start getting their CEOs on to see how they're combating all of this.

SPEAKER_02 41:42

Yeah, please. And yeah, keep us updated, Microf um, or get them invite everybody to come to this mastermind. And JT, that would solve the problem. If we had every host in the world on this mastermind, there we go. We can take all that.

Why Hosts Split When Cities Crack Down

SPEAKER_07 41:55

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 41:55

It's crazy.

SPEAKER_07 41:56

JT yes. Oh, you know what you said. That is what I want to touch on too. Um, so you talked about all hosts not being united, and that that is a very strong one. And so when Arlington started banning short-term rentals, I started seeing the shift of why hosts weren't united. It's because there's so many different types of hosts on Airbnb. So when Arlington Yeah, so like when Arlington was like, well, we're gonna ban short-term rentals if you don't live on site. Now you have all these people raising their hand. Well, hold on, I live on site, I'm not with them. You know, so I think that's where it comes. And I think Airbnb knows that. And I think that's why you always see the division when rules start to change. Everyone starts to separate. And I think that goes back to Mark Simpson saying, I think we've given them the power to do that.

SPEAKER_01 42:44

That's in the consumer side as well. You know, you've got so many um um neighbors and things that still don't understand that Airbnb or short-term rental is not just about getting bucks parties in there and whatever else. You know, they they do not understand that, hey, insurance stays need somewhere. They already live in your neighborhood, but they can't go to a hotel with their dogs and their jet skis and you know, the kids in the local area school. They need a house. Um, but they're actually your neighbors already, you know, that sort of thing. There just needs to be a lot more education on what we need to use these properties for, not just for, you know, holiday, short-term um, you know, parties, that sort of thing, which is what has given it such a bad

Bad Hosts and Bad Management

SPEAKER_01 43:27

name.

SPEAKER_05 43:28

Yeah, I agree with that. By the way, Cardi, I own in um Dallas and Arkansas, so maybe I can pick your brains on that, on that market. I don't know where you're at in Arkansas, but um yeah, so yeah, I agree with that. I mean, um, the consumer side too, right? Um, and obviously there's a lot of different guests as well. And then with with with Carti's point too, with uh with hosts, there's just a lot of let's be realistic, there's also a lot of bad hosts that gives us a bad rap, unfortunately. And honestly, like the reason why and Everyone here that manages the reason why it's so easy to convert is because normally they are in a bad management, especially when Vacasa. Obviously, Steve Shop is changing that with Cossago, but then again, there's Evolve, right? Like before when I used to take over any local management or any Vacasa or Evolve. I don't even have to look at the listing. I knew I can probably increase that revenue by 50% because of how bad those management companies are. So I think that's also like another thing, right? A lot of guests were like, I mean, I stayed recently under Airbnb and the host talks, right? Literally, like I'm not responding, like everything is just not working. So, you know, unfortunately, there's a lot of really just bad hosts out there as well, you know. So that's I think that's another issue by itself.

No Phone Numbers or Emails: A Shot at Direct Booking

SPEAKER_01 44:48

I was gonna say, just when you mentioned about them not responding, you know, the fact that we can't have phone numbers is also a huge issue for us because a lot of people put their phone to the side and you know, they ignore the dings or whatever. But if you ring them, they will answer it. Well, hey, if we've got an issue or um they have an issue, like it really does make a big difference having a phone number um to say, hey, you know, your noise levels have gone too loud or whatever it might be to get that you know on top of that before it becomes an issue. Um, or hey, have you slept in because the cleaners are there and no one's answering the door? But you know, they've really taken that away from us as well by not having a phone number. Um, and I don't actually know how to work around that one.

SPEAKER_07 45:28

Wait, are are they take restricting phone numbers?

SPEAKER_01 45:31

Yeah, you can't have phone numbers.

SPEAKER_07 45:33

Oh, even emails, emails, four numbers.

SPEAKER_01 45:38

Yeah, look, I don't know.

SPEAKER_07 45:40

That was a shot at direct booking, then I didn't know that. That's it.

SPEAKER_01 45:42

Yeah, obviously the majority of this is shot at direct booking. Like I said, I feel like the trash side of it is just a segue onto the real issue of the you know, the direct bookings and taking um bookings from their platform, but they really have to factor in that a lot of these things will have massive flow-on effects um that are really negative. You know, not being able to get a cold of a of a guest is um a pretty big one.

Do Owners Even Know Yet?

unknown 46:07

Yep.

SPEAKER_02 46:09

Can I ask those of you who are managing properties on behalf of others, have the owners, the homeowners, come in on any of these new changes, or do they not give a shit?

SPEAKER_01 46:20

I don't think they know yet. Okay, good. But if you've got the right style of owner, they should be hands-off, you know, certain forget. They're the ones you want anyway. Um, so yeah, look, we haven't had any backlash yet. Um, but what it will happen once November 20 kicks in and those forward bookings um that don't have, you know, the previous um uh rulings in there, and then we get the issues with hey, you've been hit with you know extra cleaning or, you know, whatever it is, or there's damages, you know, or there's excess, you know, people in there and the neighbors have said something, that's then going to flow onto us to say that it's bad management. But what are you supposed to do?

API-Connected Listings Get More Time

SPEAKER_02 46:59

Yep, interesting. Um I one of our mastermind members posted in the WhatsApp group, and I just want to read this to you, um, that coming from an Airbnb market manager, um, this is Josh George. I don't know if any of you know him, not related, even though my son is Josh, um, saying uh just in regards to API connected listings, um, we know the tools to update house rules and requests through your software aren't available yet and you won't be penalised while they're being built. We've published a change log to help our API partners build these tools and they need to be made, uh they need to make the changes by March 2027. So when the next Airbnb API version is released, um uh listings connected through API won't be affected until the deadline. You won't receive any warnings before February 28th, 2027. Um, so they're working closely with property management software partners to make sure you've got what you need to comply. So so that's the other thing, I guess, is that it with our PMS connections. Um you didn't hear this, Michael? That's this is coming from a um yeah, from the Airbnb market manager. So it's a private message.

SPEAKER_01 48:14

So it's so basically they were saying that all API connected hosts will have the extended amount of time to combine in short.

SPEAKER_02 48:24

Yeah, correct.

SPEAKER_01 48:25

Yeah, I'm not up with sent out that sorry, Julie.

SPEAKER_07 48:32

That sounds like a litmus test to me. If you implement it on November, see how it goes till March, and then maybe change the rules. I don't know. That's what it sounds like to me because I think most of their bigger, like I think JT was talking about one of the biggest hosts on there. I'm pretty sure they're all API connected. So that that's an interesting uh thing that they're doing that. That's very interesting. Yep.

Booking.com Is Stepping Up

SPEAKER_02 48:56

Yeah, it's gonna be yeah, a watch and see. Uh and Ashley's saying they did the same thing with the price change. So do you mean the commission changes, Ash? Is that what you're talking about? The when they change the commissions or yeah, yeah, yeah, spot on. I don't know, they're not doing themselves any favors though, are they? And I think um the one thing that I noticed just so I've been in Japan on the Gold Coast in Australia the last week, talking to property managers from around the world, hosts from around the world, the market is shifting. And you know, for those of us, including me, who used to love Airbnb, and I had Airbnb, I was threatening to go and get an Airbnb tattoo on my forehead because I love them so much. Um, it's shifting. And I think you know who's coming through in leaps and bounds, especially in those two markets, booking.com. Booking.com are absolutely killing it when it comes to being there for the short-term market operators and hosts. So um I've really got to give them their um yeah, their flowers at the moment for actually stepping up. Where Airbnb is upsetting everybody, um, booking.com are coming up. So uh not sure if that's the same in the state. So I've I haven't really noticed. Um, but it'd be interesting to hear from our American friends on the call today whether you are getting more bookings through booking.com than maybe Airbnb. Are they standing up?

SPEAKER_05 50:25

I'm actually curious as well because we've we've stopped doing booking.com because a lot of like the scam booking, at least in the US. Um, so I'm curious if any of my US counterparts are using Booking.com and and if how is that thing? Maybe we apply it now. I don't know, maybe they've changed. I'm not sure. Um, but when we used to do booking.com, it was just a headache where it's not worth it. Um I don't know, maybe because also because our properties are unique in a way where it's more high-end. I don't know if booking.com is for that. I am not sure. Don't quote me on that, but yeah, uh so maybe anyone here you think's using booking.com and is doing great.

How to Avoid Booking.com Scams

SPEAKER_05 51:06

I mean, I'm not sure. Me personally, we haven't used it.

SPEAKER_07 51:09

I hopped off of it due to the same reason. Um, but at the same time, I did get rid of my PMS, but I am gonna go back to my PMS system. The beta be effective on booking.com in America is to get a PMS and then make booking.com the payment processor. We were getting more legitimate bookings that way. But we're getting a if you're just going directly to booking.com with no uh intermediary or no PMS, you're gonna get a lot of scams. I mean, we were getting scams left and right. So we did it where they were the payment processor, we integrated. And that we haven't, but I haven't done that in a while, but that's the most efficient way that we've been dealt, we've dealt with booking.com.

50% Up Front, Zero Chargebacks

SPEAKER_04 51:50

I I use booking.com with a PMS and I bill so as soon as I get a booking from a booking.com, I bill them 50% of the booking um of the booking fee. I don't call it a deposit, it's 50% up front, um, which is then uh you know, if you cancel up to 30 days before, you get it back, less fees. Um, but if you cancel within 30 days, um that 50% is um you know, it's forfeited. Um and then if it's a no-show, it's a hundred percent. So I I actually get the money up front. Um, and so I've I've validated their credit card up front. Um and that was the way that we got like uh we were getting a ton of scams or no shows and a whole bunch of problems. Um and then when we became the merchant of record, um that solved all of that. We have like we get a lot of bookings from booking.com now. We love it.

SPEAKER_02 52:48

That's fantastic. Yeah, Jason.

SPEAKER_05 52:51

Question on that, Tracy. So uh so what's happen so since you're the merchant of record, right? So what happens is every time there's a booking, you you build them. Yeah, and then if they don't pay within a certain, let's say 24 hours, you just cancel the booking.

SPEAKER_04 53:05

Correct. You can actually mark their credit card invalid, um and uh you can cancel it. So um we you know if it's a booking that's within that's like a last kind of last minute booking within a week, I just take the full payment up front. Um and um but ones that are like two, three, four months in uh away, um I send them a message and say I send them a message and say 50% of your booking fee is due now to hold your dates, the rest is due a month before. And people tend like we get it a lot of people then see that message and then they cancel themselves. So um I don't book it straight away. I give them 24 hours to see that message um and say that I am going to be billing you because this is you know, and I you know, I'm nice about it. I've got some pretty good wording done, and it's like, you know, we just need because it's busy, you know, we're gonna hold your dates. This is to show that you're serious. Um look, if life happens, that's you'll we get it. You'll get that back if you cancel more than 30 days out. Um and um and and then because that's that's our that's our you know, terms and conditions um that is on um on booking.com. Uh some people don't read that, of course, and then they get that message and go, oh, actually, you know, uh that's not what I wanted, and then they cancel. So that takes away all those, so those people self-select away. Yeah. We haven't had any chart we haven't had any chargebacks at all. At all. And then the only thing is is like because you get a hundred percent of the booking in advance, you've got to make sure that your cash flow budget is there for paying, you know, you've got to pay their you've got to pay their commission once a month um for the whole month for every booking. So you I mean you just gotta make sure that you uh that you've put it you may you've got that 15% or 12% or what is it, put aside so that you've got the cash to pay pay them when they want to get paid.

SPEAKER_05 55:02

Okay, because they bill you every month, right? I think that's what happened when we were doing it.

SPEAKER_04 55:05

They bill every month, yeah. For the for the month that for the for the stays that happened that month.

SPEAKER_05 55:11

Yeah. So are you guys doing this like manually and just tracking the 30-day thing? Like you get doing it all manual on your side?

SPEAKER_04 55:19

Yeah, I'm I'm I'm seeing when the booking comes in, I've just got a protocol. Like you see the you see when the booking comes in that like the automated message goes out, and then my PMS just allows me to charge, like I just press a button and it's charged. Um, and I can set how much I want to charge um in the in the PMS. Um, if it fails, they that then Stripe start sending the nag messages. Um you know, we sometimes get it that of course we're getting credit cards from abroad and their bank has stopped it, for example. Um, but then they get the nag messages from that I don't I don't I don't have to do, and they go, Oh, you know, let me fix it up now or let me change credit cards. You know, a lot of people have the wrong credit, you know, different credit cards, and they want to pay with a different credit card. And so you just start that, you know, conversation early. Um, and then you see the people who are who are actually want to pay, you know, they're the people who are not scammers.

SPEAKER_05 56:17

So last question. Um, another thing that we had a problem with booking.com is cancel oh sorry.

unknown 56:25

Sorry.

SPEAKER_02 56:30

And ask the question, JT, because we might be able the rest of us might be able to help.

SPEAKER_05 56:34

Yeah, so another thing we had a problem with booking.com are the cancellations. Because say let's say, for example, you got it and you canceled, you still get build for that at the end of the month. So there's additional steps that you have to do to tell them that hey, this is a cancellation, please don't bail me on this. It's just so much other extra work. I'm not sure if it's still the same. That's why I was gonna ask Tracy how that works. Because, like, when we were doing booking.com, like we were getting build, even though there was just a lot of cancellations, they just automatically build us for that 15%. I'm not sure. Hopefully, they fix that now,

Let Booking.com Collect, and a 4-Hour Cancel Window

SPEAKER_05 57:07

but no, they have it. Okay.

SPEAKER_01 57:10

I can handle that one. We we were collecting like um Tracy um is. Um, we've only just recently switched back to letting them collect because of one chargebacks. We were having a lot of chargebacks, to what you were saying, the um admin on going through on all the cancelled bookings to make sure that we weren't beginning to charge the commission on those, which we were. They instantly charge it to you and you've got to chase it back. And then that's sometimes like over another month, it will roll over into the next month to kill get those back to make sure they've been approved. So it is a bit of a nightmare to track that. Um, and like I said, the excess admin on that. Um, and on top of that, I mean, we used to hate booking.com, particularly on the houses. Again, on units, it's perfectly fine. We don't have any issue with the type of guests. But on houses, again, um, they used to have a ruling in there, I think it still exists that you basically couldn't cancel on a guest or you would have to rehouse them at your cost to something special. And so that became a nightmare for us because if we'd get a booking and it'd drop in and we went, hang on, we're not accepting, you know, 16, 20 year olds or whatever for, you know, new years, um, we were getting penalized for it, you know. And these are, you know, really high expensive nights um over this period with all the extra guest fees and all of that, and they would just whack us for it. So we said we um to our booking.com rep, we would not be on platform at all across any of the platforms unless we had the right to cancel, um, in which they actually gave us the permission to cancel those bookings. Um, it has to be within the 48 hours. Um, so we put implemented for those, for any booking.com guest, actually we do it across all the platforms, that they have four hours immediately to cancel where they won't be charged anything. And then over that time, you know, they might be charged the um credit card fee or whatever it is if they've left it a bit longer and a bit longer. Um, and that has proved amazing for us because we can then do our checks and measures in terms of asking them why they're staying, checking their ID, cross-checking things that match again. If we need to do a selfie with them, um, especially on last-minute ones, um, and that has honestly saved everything. But then we've switched over to having them collect because of all the issues we were having with chargebacks and um chasing up all the commissions that shouldn't go through. Because in those checks and measures we were doing, a lot of bookings would get canceled, um, which we didn't care. If they weren't the type of guests we want in the property, happy to get rid of the booking. But it was a nightmare to follow up then, all those commissions.

SPEAKER_05 59:35

Right. Okay. Thanks for that info, Holly. It's it's good to know that there's kind of like a workaround there. And I would probably do the same if I do booking.com. I'd rather then be the merchant of record, just because I don't want to deal with um chargebacks and also like, you know, at least when they cancel, it's on their team. Like that's an operational nightmare, I agree. If I have to track all those cancellations, you know, like what to be build, what not to be build, but it's it's good to know. Appreciate that info.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:02

No problem. Booking.com has come a long way, and I just see that what they're doing now for the guest. I'm booking all my flights, my car rentals, everything through booking.com. Mostly because they call me a genius when I do it. Um, but um, I just think that they are really,

Julie's Mastermind Calls

SPEAKER_02 1:00:20

they're really stepping up on both levels. So um that's all we've got time for today. There's a few new faces on today's call. So I just want to remind you three calls a week. We've got sales and marketing on Mondays, uh, and these are the US Times Mondays. We've got executive boardroom for more than 20 operators on Tuesdays, and then on the Wednesdays, of course, we always talk operations. Um, we often have guest speakers, but a lot of the times it's just these sorts of conversations. So I really would love to encourage you to come back um more often. Uh, of course, our favorite podcast today is Live Let Thrive. Um, guys, how do how can they how can Steve? I'll go to you. How do people tune into the podcast?

SPEAKER_06 1:01:05

Uh Livelet Thrive.com. You can find us there. Um Livelet Thrive at gmail.com. What's our old Gmail? We still got it. Yeah, we're we're at that Livelet Thrive. We have fun. We'll we'd like to get some of y'all on the podcast if that's here we go.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:19

See, see, look, we can provide all these amazing guests for you as well.

SPEAKER_06 1:01:22

But would you would y'all everybody here mind if we made this and put this as a podcast? Not at all.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:28

Any objections?

SPEAKER_06 1:01:29

Any objections?

unknown 1:01:31

Awesome.

SPEAKER_06 1:01:31

Once going twice, sold.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:33

I'm done.

SPEAKER_06 1:01:33

All right. Hey, I'm gonna be on your next uh SM Monday, okay?

SPEAKER_02 1:01:37

Yeah, that sounds good. See, Jesse now turns his video on because he knows he's gonna be famous.

SPEAKER_05 1:01:42

Yeah, I usually have a talent th Stevie. No, it's kidding.

SPEAKER_06 1:01:45

Oh, yeah, you look like uh K-pop guy a little bit. I'm getting kidding.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:53

No, it's fantastic to catch up with everybody. And um, yeah, it's honestly we should do this more often. And yeah, honest Steve and Micah, if you come along, put us all on your podcast. It's uh we we would love that. But coming along to the sales and marketing calls, lots of discussions at the moment on you know how to use AI, how to meta ad strategies, all sorts of fun stuff. But um uh there's Craig Westaway in the background. Hi, Craig, we can see you there. Good to see you, buddy. But um, lovely to catch up with everyone today. Thank you for joining in and we'll look forward to seeing you all next week. Oh, I think it's Steve.

SPEAKER_05 1:02:30

Thank you. It's great to meet everyone.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:32

Thank you, Mr. Uh, Mr. Texas. All right, thanks, everybody. See you next week.

SPEAKER_05 1:02:37

Later. Thanks, guys. Thanks, Julie. Bye.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:41

See you guys. Bye.

Myka & Steve's Take

SPEAKER_06 1:02:43

All right. That was an amazing mastermind. I'm glad we uh hopped on, and I'm glad we got to use it as a as a podcast for you guys to to listen. And uh it's always good when you come away with with more questions than answers because you know we all got a lot of questions, and I'm sure y'all got a lot of questions too. But what did you what stood out to you, Mike, uh, from that mastermind and

What Kind of Hosts Will Airbnb Attract?

SPEAKER_06 1:03:07

the topic?

SPEAKER_07 1:03:08

Bro, I had a lot of notes from it. Um I I was I'm like, I like what Julie asked. Where's Airbnb going with this? That made me think, and then like, okay, what type of hosts and what so we we we talked about what type of guests they're looking to attract. What another thing that I thought about on the other end, what type of hosts are they attracting, right? If you're just allowing free-for-all, like the old days, and you know, and I think Airbnb may be playing the game of, oh, well, cities have already implemented the rules, we'll just let let it go back to the war zone that it was beforehand, and it's like that's just gonna create more issues, man. Like, you just nah, you can't ask them to take out the trash, like, come on, bro. Like, come on, you know, which is cool, but I've like if you're staying like a week, like I don't ask them to do chores, I only ask them, hey, if you're staying on a Tuesday night, just take the trash bin to the curb on Wednesday. But I mainly cater to midterm guests. Um, people I think it hurts people who cater more short term than long term. For me, that's what I got out of it. How about

Day Guests, Parties and One-Strike Rules

SPEAKER_07 1:04:09

you?

SPEAKER_06 1:04:09

Yeah, that's that's the um, there was a lot of stuff on there. I was like, holy crap, that's kind of scary because they were they were mentioning, you know, you can't say that you they can't have house guests. Let's say if you have a house, they can't have house guests throughout the day as long as they're not spending the night. And so you can have, I mean, 15, 16 people come through that door and you can't say nothing, you know, and that what the hell is that? That could be uh a party right there, of course, and that's gonna piss off the neighbors, that's gonna get you shut down because a lot of these cities have these one-strike, two-strike rules or whatever they're they're implementing. You know, all it takes all the all the cities where it's legal, where it's on the books, it has a hotline. You know, here to report an Airbnb, call this hotline, and it calls the the code enforcement, and then they um, you know, they could shut you down. So it's not yeah, that

Pool Waivers and Your Own Insurance

SPEAKER_06 1:04:59

that stood out uh the the part about you're not have you can't have them sign waivers anymore if you have swimming pools or hot tubs and stuff like that. So uh uh yeah, um uh J JT or TJ Yeah of the show. He he mentioned that because he he deals with a lot of high-end properties that have all the amenities and all the hot tubs and pools and uh and and uh jet skis and everything else like that. And he was saying that he he he has them sign all these waivers, but he can't anymore according to their the new rules, and it's gonna just cause like a legal nightmare, you know, as far as uh maybe getting lawsuits and stuff like that. And um yeah, man, and you you mentioned something. I mean, he said, Well, yeah, I'm gonna have to put my personal insurance on there. And then you said, Well, if you keep doing that, then your personal insurance is gonna drop you, right? If someone does have a slip and fall and they have to pay for a million dollars out of their pocket, then they're gonna drop you and you're not gonna have insurance no more. So, I mean, it's a lot of um uh a lot of scary stuff with this with these new rule changes. I I wasn't aware of.

SPEAKER_07 1:05:58

Oh, yeah, man. Um

Is Airbnb Pulling Everything In-House?

SPEAKER_07 1:06:00

It seems like I don't know. And it seems like Airbnb is kind of going after all the big companies. Like Stay Fi is affected by this. Autohost and Truvi are affected by it. And it's like they're almost pulling everything in house. Like, well, just trust our screening process. Just trust, hey, don't go through Stay Fi. That's banned. If you go to that, we'll just ban your listing. It's like they're trying to pull everything in house. Well, we know they are, but I think they're doing it for the purpose of they're trying to make it a conglomerate. And I think what I really liked was what you touched on with the Verbo thing. Because Verbo's been kicking Airbnb's ass on these commercials, just like just straight throwing daggers at them, right? Like they ain't responding. Like it's a what is it? It's like a Kendrick Lamar on Drake's ass. Like they ain't letting up, right? So it so it's interesting to see it, you know. So I don't know what they're doing. And I think with them doing this, I think they're gonna cause more issues with like cities and things of that nature. But I ain't gonna lie,

Using Building, HOA and City Rules

SPEAKER_07 1:07:03

I did like the idea of forming like a building compliance code thing that she was talking about. I'm like, that's a good ass idea, you know. Like, hey, these are the building rules. And another thing how I know that works is because the timeshares partnered with Airbnb, and the the Airbnb has to count how has to go to the building's rules. I don't know how that would work in like a single family home, but it's something interesting to try out. But you know, it's interesting to see.

SPEAKER_06 1:07:31

The only thing that might work with a single family home is is to have some kind of hoa documents that you can show them.

SPEAKER_08 1:07:38

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 1:07:39

You know, because uh a building, yeah, apartment complex. And when you sign a lease, there are rules. Especially if you're if you're allowed to do short-term rentals at an apartment complex, they usually come with the a sheet of uh short-term rental rules, right? The quiet hours and you know how many guests and all that stuff, you know, and or the apartment complex can shut you down because if you don't, if you're being a bad host.

SPEAKER_07 1:08:00

Yep. Um, I

Having Claude Pull Every City's Rules

SPEAKER_07 1:08:02

like this idea because I I've already created this while I was thinking about it on the phone. I'm gonna have Claude go through and pull all the city rules for all of my places and see if I can use the city to back up the rules. Uh so I'm gonna pull that and then like uh so yeah, so if you guys listen to it, so you can you use city rules, HOA rules to trump, you know, the Airbnb's rules if it's under 28 days.

SPEAKER_06 1:08:26

Now the city that that's interesting because you're right, every time that you legally sign up for to do uh short-term rentals in a city, they'll have uh a whole set of uh short-term rental rules for you, right? Yeah, and if you break any of those, then then you get shut down. So yeah, that's that's that I didn't even think about that until you told me right though. The code enforcement rules. Yeah, see, and those are there's trash on there too. On the on the code enforcement rules, it does say the trash days on there, right?

SPEAKER_07 1:08:52

Yeah, because and I brought that up. I thought trash was probably a big liability, especially if like if someone's staying, let's say because the cutoff is 28 days, right? Let's somebody stay in three weeks and you're telling them they ain't gotta take out the trash. Yeah, like that can get ridiculous because you got to look at it from the stand of okay, you're there three weeks, they ain't gotta take no trash to the curb, trash starts piling up. Now you get the phone calls down to city hall, but if the city has it in there, I think that's the saving grace.

SPEAKER_06 1:09:21

And another thing that I've seen at all those cities that we operate in is the no street parking. That's against the uh uh city rules, code enforcement rules for for short-term rentals.

SPEAKER_07 1:09:31

So that could be used as hey, they can't have extra guests over.

SPEAKER_06 1:09:35

That's again now we can get those code enforcement uh rule lists, you know, and you want to beef them up a little bit, you can beef them up a little bit, right?

SPEAKER_07 1:09:43

They're gonna so that that's what they were talking about on the cast. They were saying, like, hey, well, you still have to submit it to Airbnb. But but the thing is this, how well is Airbnb gonna I I would beef them up just to see how well they're paying attention to. Well, they're probably running AI through it. We know we're all using AI now.

SPEAKER_06 1:10:01

Hmm. Yeah, that's true.

SPEAKER_07 1:10:04

But I hey, you gotta try it. AI versus AI. Let's see who wins.

SPEAKER_06 1:10:09

Or make a Spanish set of rules too that are all different different.

SPEAKER_07 1:10:13

There you go.

SPEAKER_06 1:10:14

Um break that down too. Shoot.

SPEAKER_07 1:10:16

But it it's it's interesting. It's interesting.

Airbnb Wants to Be a Hotel: Are Cleaning Fees Next?

SPEAKER_06 1:10:19

One thing I was thinking about, okay. Now, now a lot of it to me, and I was saying it on the last episode, is um they're trying to to mimic hotels, because hotels for years have been saying you don't gotta you don't gotta clean the hotel room, you know, you can we got maids for that. Um and you don't, you know, there's this a lot of stuff that Airbnb makes you do that every that hotels don't, and then plus the the money thing too, the um hotels you don't gotta pay till like the day before, right? You can cancel all the way up to the day before, right? That's with with hotels, it's always been that way. You don't but you get a discount if you pay it all in full the first day, right? Um the thing is um I see them doing a lot of things because they started doing at least the the the payments, they they let you split the payments in two when you book an Airbnb. So that helps uh uh guests a little bit. But another uh another thing that's made me all think of if they're trying to mimic hotels, and and I when I would talk to people about if they if they use Airbnb to book places or whatever, or hotels, they say they like the Airbnb is cool. The number one thing they hate is the cleaning fees.

unknown 1:11:22

Yep.

SPEAKER_06 1:11:23

They hate the cleaning fees, hotels don't charge you. Now it's rolled into the price of the hotel, right? But they don't charge you cleaning fees. So I don't know. If I was a gambling man, I would say those are gonna be gone next.

SPEAKER_07 1:11:36

I think so too. Um and then

Why Hotels Don't Get Party Bookings

SPEAKER_07 1:11:39

okay, so let's go to Orlando Miner's video about this because he had a really good video about it, and people were saying they don't pay hotel fees and that that. This is where I want everyone to actually have a wider lens of it. First off, at hotels, you did pay a hotel fee. You do pay a cleaning fee, it's just rolled into the nightly price. Two. The reason why people don't have hotels at parties is because of what they got my freaking credit card on file. That is the reason why like people, Airbnb hosts, put all these rules in place because I don't have access to your credit card. Direct booking? Oh, do what you want. I got your credit card on file. See, that's what people don't understand. That's why I've always pushed towards direct booking, but people don't understand on Airbnb. Yeah, you're gonna pay more. You have you have free reign to destroy somebody's property or someone's asset. So yeah, they're gonna pay more. And you can go go do it. The reason why people don't do it at hotels is they know their credit cards on file. They ain't about to go tear up no shit up in there. They know, hey, they're gonna swipe that shit, and you got you're accountable for it. You can never create a business or a system or a household with no accountability. You can't have it, it'll always fall. It'll always fall. You know what I mean? What if you ever produce a system with no accountability, it's gonna just fall and crumble. And if that's what Airbnb's doing, good luck to that. And it's funny,

Vrbo vs Airbnb: Pricing and Guests

SPEAKER_07 1:13:05

we're talking about all those Verbo commercials, right? What did Verbo just do yesterday?

SPEAKER_06 1:13:11

Yesterday.

SPEAKER_07 1:13:12

Yeah, went up on their commission to 12%. Oh, damn. Right a little, a little bit under Airbnb, but like look at them high-ass commissions you're paying too, by the way. Because ours is a little bit under it. Oh, you now they just let anybody come in your house. Look at man, verbo can eat this. I hope Verbo does. Eat them up, eat them up, make some more Nick Saban commercials, call up old Nick.

SPEAKER_06 1:13:35

And I was I was thinking too that that uh adjusting the prices uh once this hits, you know, adjusting prices verbo to be cheaper than Airbnb, just to see how that works. On the on hospitable.

SPEAKER_07 1:13:49

See, I I always keep them higher because they're willing to pay more.

SPEAKER_06 1:13:53

But yeah, but but how much what percentage of your bookings come from Airbnb as opposed to verbo?

SPEAKER_07 1:14:01

Probably about 30% come from Virgo, and then like probably the rest of them come from Airbnb. And then I gotta throw direct in there too. I probably get maybe 40. I got a lot of direct too though. I do get a lot of direct. But I definitely get more Airbnb than verbo. But I wouldn't want to lower my price just to satisfy buttons.

SPEAKER_06 1:14:25

Just to encourage them to buy verbo instead because you have more control of your property.

SPEAKER_07 1:14:30

That you have more control over it, and two, Verbo just has better guests than Airbnb, man. They just do. And and I think Airbnb.

SPEAKER_06 1:14:39

They buy the hell out of that verbo insurance, man. I'll tell you that. They always buying that shit. Yeah, they do. They do.

SPEAKER_07 1:14:47

I I I man, it's just Airbnb is like the household name, and whenever you're the household name, you have to come up with restrictions. And I do think Airbnb made these rules. Like the cleaning fee stuff, the cleaning stuff, we don't care about that. That's I don't I don't ask guests to clean. I care more about the background checking. That's more, you know, just letting anybody into properties. Uh, I think a lot of that we may be able to back with city rules, but the background stuff, the liability, and then like and then the the the trash I'm not worried about because most of my stays are 28 nights or more, so I'm not worried about it. But people, I I'm more concerned about people in the short-term rentals on Airbnb right now. That's more your issue.

SPEAKER_06 1:15:30

And I heard they're contemplating changing their name to Spirit Airbnb.

SPEAKER_07 1:15:36

Spirit B. Oh!

Hidden Phone Numbers and the Zillow Workaround

SPEAKER_07 1:15:41

Now I didn't now did you catch that? I didn't know they were taking away phone numbers.

SPEAKER_06 1:15:45

Yes, I I heard about that. Yeah, I heard about that.

SPEAKER_07 1:15:48

I didn't know that.

SPEAKER_06 1:15:50

Well, they're gonna use they're gonna use like a generic number, like Zillow uses a geran generic number, you know, whenever you try to call the the what's it called, either the agent or the homeowner or whatever, it gives it's a Zillow number. You don't get their real number. Now the only thing with that, I see I don't know if is I guess it's still gonna hit their yeah, still I I guess it'll still hit their phone just like Zillow. It hits their phones. You call that number, whatever that number is. But the thing is, what what I've what I've uh workaround with Zillow is it'll go to if it goes to voicemail, which most of them do because you see uh people don't recognize the number, they're mostly gonna ignore it or whatever. A lot of times the voicemails have the real phone number. He goes, You have reached blah blah blah blah blah, you know, and so that's where you can get the real number. But if they if they're always answering like every single phone call that you you probably won't be able to get their real phone number. Um real quick, going back about

The Hotel That Locks Up Its Remotes

SPEAKER_06 1:16:42

five seconds. Uh you were talking about the the accountability and like like you you know checking a hotel, they got your credit card. I don't know. I just had a flashback to staying at a at a at a ghetto as hojo, Howard Johnson, a long time ago. I got them to the root and they they when you check in and you put your card on file, they they hand you the the two remotes wrapped in plastic, right? The two remote controls. I was like, what oh okay. He goes, yeah, when you get to get your you know to when you check out, you have to bring them back to the front. I'm like, damn, that's pretty ingenious, man, because you lose remotes all the time, right?

Closing Thoughts

SPEAKER_06 1:17:20

So yeah, man, that was a great uh great uh mastermind. I'm glad we were able to put it on there as a podcast for you guys. Uh there's a lot of we're gonna get some of those people on there uh that were on the the the mastermind, we're gonna get them on the podcast because there's a lot of knowledgeable and a lot of heavy hitters, man. Oh, yeah. Um, and so um yeah, I learned a lot. I hope you all learned a lot from that. And we look forward to the next episode. Uh any any closing uh thoughts, Mike?

SPEAKER_07 1:17:47

Yeah, my closing thoughts, man. Know your market, know what's going on. If you're dependent upon Airbnb, maybe want to rethink it and make sure you're looking at your city rules, gather out every information you can to protect yourself and your property. And uh yeah, you can find us at livelettrive.com, email us liveletrive at gmail.com, and thank you for continuing to listen to us.

SPEAKER_00 1:18:08

We are out.

SPEAKER_07 1:18:10

Peace later.

SPEAKER_00 1:18:12

Thank you for tuning in to this week's episode of Livelet Thrive. Be sure to tune in next week for all the latest in the world of Airbnb and all that entails. Bye bye.