Cold open

SPEAKER_03 0:00

Are you ready to run your short-term rental business like a super host? If so, look no further than Guestie for Hosts. Guestie for Hosts offers listing management for all three major OTAs, Airbnb, Booking.com, and Verbo. With Guestie for Host, you can create a branded direct booking website in minutes. I've been able to hit 61% direct bookings in my business and automate daily tasks such as communication with cleaners and communication with guests. Click the link in the show notes to get an additional $20 off your first month.

SPEAKER_00 0:27

Welcome to Live Let Thrive, a podcast about the Airbnb life, the share economy, and everything in between. Here are your hosts, Micah and Steve.

SPEAKER_03 0:39

Hello, hello, hello, and welcome back to

Theron Lewis introduction - stopped bans in 10 cities, zero losses

SPEAKER_03 0:43

another exciting episode of Live Let Thrive.

SPEAKER_02 0:50

What is up, Micah Man?

SPEAKER_03 0:52

It is a beautiful Monday, and I'm chilling. Stevie Stacks, how you doing?

SPEAKER_02 0:55

See, only uh someone who don't work uh nine to five job will say it's a beautiful Monday. No one no one ever says that that has to go take their ass to work on Mondays, man. Shit.

SPEAKER_03 1:06

I didn't take my ass to work. It's just I worked for the comfort of my man, Cave, me and my wife, and my kids, and it was a beautiful day. He worked for you, he worked for you.

SPEAKER_02 1:15

You ain't trying to make someone else work. Well, it is great to be back on your favorite Airbnb VRBO, booking.com, short-term, mid-term, long-term rental podcast in the world that is Live Let Thrive. And we're coming at you from Fort Worth and Arlington, Texas. And we have a special guest, Mike. Who we got, Steve? A special, special guest and a super superman, a super SCR hero in the house. I'm fumbling my words, but it's uh Steve Theron Theron Lewis. Everybody knows Theron, man. He's out there saving the day for all of us short-term rental peeps. He's giving a big hand for all he's doing for the community. And um, yeah, man, Theron Lewis is hopping on our show finally. Who's Theron Lewis, you ask? Well, he he wrote a little bio for me. He said he has saved millions of people from unfair STR government bans and has a proven system that has never, never failed, that can help virtually all cities worldwide. So he's out there fighting the good for uh good fight for us and and keeping STRs alive in our cities. Welcome to the show, Theron.

SPEAKER_01 2:35

Hey, it is a pleasure to be on. This is a long time coming, long time listener, and uh happy to happy to make my debut on the on the show. Great stuff.

SPEAKER_02 2:44

Awesome. I hope everybody's watching this on YouTube because you can see he's literally wearing a superhero outfit, man. It looks like a superman, but yeah, it says STR hero on the front.

SPEAKER_01 2:54

Y'all gonna miss half the the the value. Well, what's like this? Y'all miss 15% of the value. You'll get a ton of value on how to save your short-term rentals from bands, but yeah, it's the the the visuals make it make it even better.

SPEAKER_02 3:09

And I just realized something. You can't spell hero without Theron, or you can't spell Theron without hero. You got hero in your name. Steve, wait a minute.

SPEAKER_01 3:19

Whoa. I've had this name 32 years, majing myself right now. 32 years. We've worked we've worked on this branding for for over almost two years at this point. Never thought about that. I never thought about that.

SPEAKER_02 3:34

It's right in the middle of the name. Right between the T and the N. You got the hero. That's it.

SPEAKER_01 3:41

I just need to do something with the S, but that's it. No, literally, that's it. He's a creator. Man, see I didn't think about that either. Hey, hey. Everything happens for a reason. That's all I gotta say.

SPEAKER_02 3:55

That's what's up, man. Those are your real muscles in that suit.

SPEAKER_01 3:59

Uh, you know, about uh about about 80% of them, you know, they got got some uh what is it with some some costume foam over here. Let's just say the construction of this suit, I was not able to uh to not have this on here. I can't say where I got it from, you know what I mean? Did some alterations, but uh, but yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 4:17

No, so you're not you're not stuffing anything anywhere in that suit.

SPEAKER_01 4:20

I'm not stuffing anything, but it it just it it it didn't come without it. The the the base suit, it had to come with this, with this right here. I wouldn't want to lie. Oh, this is me. This is uh, you know, eight, 80%, 80% me right here. You know what I mean?

SPEAKER_02 4:37

We had some ladies in the back chat mentioning um if the if if everything if anything was stuffed in that suit. So I don't know, man. Oh man. I don't know.

SPEAKER_01 4:44

It's it's to tell them tell them it's it's uh what's the word? It it is it is it is it is it is it's it's it's to to to to leave stuff to the imagination, to hold things off, not to not to embellish, you know what I mean? Trying to keep it professional, kind of you know, you know. When I do that, that there's there's there's fake muscles right here. But uh, but what can you do? What can you do? The suit 2.0 will have it'll be all me. It'll be all me.

SPEAKER_02 5:09

Just always wear the underwears on the outside, and you'll be fine. Exactly. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, yeah, yeah.

Origin story - Detroit ban proposed with two weeks' notice

SPEAKER_01 5:15

Traditional superhero uh uh attire. Nice, man. Welcome to the show, dude.

SPEAKER_02 5:21

Enough about the superhero uh outfit. Please tell us how you got your start in the short-term rental world.

SPEAKER_01 5:28

For sure. So I like to call this my origin story, pun completely intended. Um, but yeah, it's it's something that now a lot of people, millions of people, are dealing with all over the world. So uh it's uh it is a heck of an origin story and it is pretty serious. So on the business side at the very least. So um I started uh becoming an advocate for short-term rentals when I put everything into my short-term rental business, left my job, put my entire savings into my business, you know, was out to prove people wrong, was out to make something of myself. I had a nice engineering job, but I hated it to tell you just to straight up. I hated it, couldn't stand it, wanted to uh, you know, have my own business and and be my own boss, etc. And and and really achieve the dreams that I had, you know, I wanted to create something. And I did that, uh, got a uh my short-term rental business in Detroit to 10 properties at that time, and um, you know, was able to replace my income, was able to just, you know, really achieve my my initial goal. And I thought everything was going smoothly, but I uh got a and I never forget it, it was on uh goodness gracious, Google Alerts. I don't know if you guys know this, and this is actually a good tip. I'm gonna just drop one gem already. If you go to Google Alerts, you can actually put in keywords. So whenever something comes up in um in the on the internet that Google picks up, if it has those keywords, it'll alert you via email. And I'm glad I did this because I I had Airbnb Law Detroit as my keywords. And all of a sudden, I built my business. I had spent years building this up. I have 10 properties, and I'm just, you know, I'm I'm thinking I've I've finally made it to where I need to go, where I need to go in life. And all of a sudden, I get this alert saying that there's this um news publication, Detroit Free Press, that's reporting on the city of Detroit banning short-term rentals in two weeks. So they were gonna be voting on the ban in two weeks. And up until then, all of the preliminary votes had been unanimous. And again, this is stuff that nobody knew about, nobody was talking about this. This was all stuff done at city council meetings where nobody was was present. And I mean, there's a lot of cities that are having these issues right now. This was in the past where this was new information. So, long story short, I built this business and took me years to build, and I was gonna lose it in two weeks. So that was my uh the beginning of my origin story. And at that point, I had to learn to how to how to be a hero. I had to learn how to save my business, and it ended up being me trying to save my own business. Uh it ended up turning into me saving Detroit as a whole

How Theron saved Detroit and built Sharing Detroit association

SPEAKER_01 8:24

from the short-term rental ban, getting the ban pulled, and uh solidifying our hold with the government, meaning we've created relationships where they're not going to do a ban like that again. So that's really my origin story. Went from almost losing my business to learn uh due to a bad ban uh to learning how to advocate for the industry and stopped that completely. And I also grew my business uh exponentially from that too, because of the connections that I made. Because when you do this this stuff for your community, they remember that. It's not something it is it, I you know, it was something that I spent money to do, right? But it was not a thankless job. You really, you know, people really support folks who are um looking out for them and being a hero to their community. So, long story short, that's my origin story. That's how I got to where I am today. And now we've done the same thing in 10 cities and counting. And yes, as of today, we have not had a loss yet. And I'm not the type to say that there could never be a loss, but I'm always very objective with these things. But the the the fact of the matter is, those are undeniable facts that you meaning that this is a great thing for the industry. This means that we have a real out when it comes to these unfair regulations that are banning millions of people worldwide. There's really an easy solution to solve this for the industry and save it.

SPEAKER_03 10:00

Man, you bring up a bunch of stuff here. I got, man, I just loaded up three questions based off this, but I'm gonna start with the first. So, how did you go about stopping the Detroit band? Like, what was the process in that? Because we're very interested because we've gone through a few bands. Steve's gone through like two or three in cities he's operated in. So, like what was that process of how did you stop that band?

SPEAKER_01 10:22

For sure. And you guys are located in Dallas too, right? Don't you guys have properties in Dallas? Yeah, and yeah. Yeah, so I yeah, let's just say I know a lot about that, and I I I I want to talk to y'all about that too. So uh hopefully I can help you guys in Dallas as well. Um, but to to go back to Detroit, it's the same strategy that we use in all the other cities, and that's the beautiful thing about this. The issues, even though they can be varied, there can be differences in cities, really the solution is the same. It's a big awareness issue. And obviously, it's not as simple as just, hey, saying, hey, you know, going to city council meetings and saying, hey, we're great for, you know, we're we're great actors, we're not, you know, doing the bad things that they say that we're doing en masse, those are very a minority of folks, blah, blah, blah. That's not enough. It you have to do it a certain way so that you can achieve the change that you want. So what the the strategy that I call this is the three pillars. And um, the three pillars of any advocacy effort for short-term rentals is the following. One, you need a strong short-term rental association. Two, you need a strong connection with an OTA, meaning Airbnb, VRBO, etc. Three, you need a strong connection with the decision makers. And the thing is, establishing those, they go hand in hand. The first thing to establish is the association. And a strong association is not just an association that has a nice website, has, you know, board members, has money in the bank. It's really an association that has the right strategy on how to approach this and is doing the right things to activate the community. Second is the uh getting the the um strong association with the OTAs, you use that association um to gain that connection, and they actually help you build the association too.

Starting an association from scratch in a Facebook group

SPEAKER_01 12:17

So, just to give you an example from Detroit, what there was no association in Detroit. So I had to start it from scratch, and that's where most people are at. It's very easy to do. Simply, what I did was I went to the Airbnb group um for uh the Southeast Michigan. That's like the name of the group that had most of the Detroiter uh hosts in it. There's groups like this all over the world. Most mid to large size cities have some sort of group for short-term rentals where people congregate. I then let them know, hey, we're gonna help you, you know, we're gonna fight this ban that they're proposing, and here's what we need you to do. And we gave them tasks to do. So at first, like I said, the band was gonna be over in two weeks. So there was a hearing that was coming up. The first thing we we wanted people to do is, well, the first thing we wanted people to do is meet, like uh uh come to a meeting in person so that we can all talk about this. Um, when I did that the first time, literally three people showed up. It's it it and actually, no uh uh that that's a funny uh story too. Actually, I didn't know there was a Facebook group at first. Like I didn't even know about that. So I was I was messaging people on Airbnb, like almost getting my account deleted by saying, hey, hey, hey, spamming people, saying, like, hey, they're about to ban Airbnbs. Look, guys, we need to meet, we need, we need to mobilize. And three people showed up, and then somebody told me, Oh, well, actually, there's a Airbnb, there's a Facebook group of hosts, and somebody over there set up a meetup to uh talk about this. So I ended up going to that meetup. And then I I told them, hey, look, we need to get people to go and testify at the hearing. That was the the first thing just to do that was the low-hanging fruit and the and the thing we needed to do the soonest. So we did that. Uh like I got people to do that, and then um at that, like when that happened, people testified, and it was good that that happened, but that did not do that much. And I want you guys to know, and everybody out there, you want to do the testifying at the public hearings, but that I'd say is 20% of the whole battle. That's not gonna do much at all. Because you got to understand, when they do these hearings, at that point, that's not where the decisions are being made. The decisions are being made behind closed doors in their private offices. They're they're being made at the uh at council meetings that they have privately. Uh, they're being made with lobbyists on the golf course, uh, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. These things are not being done at the hearing. If you're just doing stuff at the hearing, you're too late. But it is something that is important to just facilitate. So that was the first thing we did. And then going back to how to get that connection with the OTAs, we there's what's called a policy team for Airbnb and VRBO.

How to find and work with Airbnb's policy team

SPEAKER_01 15:10

Airbnb, you're mainly gonna have you're you're mainly gonna be dealing with them. They have the biggest policy team. They're usually very easy to find because if they're if there's an issue, they're gonna be trying to uh reach out to uh the Facebook groups. If you can't find them, call Airbnb and say, hey, I need to get in contact with a policy individual. There's a ban happening. Airbnb customer service can't help you, but they can patch you in to who to speak to if you're having an issue. And also, if you reach out to myself, basically the whole policy team knows me now. The whole department, uh yeah, it's it's it's like a I I meet at least I meet at least once a week with with one of those folks, and uh, yeah, it's it's it's so I can always patch you in. Um, and and and and they're an important ally to have. So going back to the uh association part, we used Airbnb to further build the association because what they'll do is if you have an event, they will actually blast that event to everybody on in that city that's a host. So that's a huge way to, you know, it's like a free email list. So we say, hey, sharing Philadelphia, that's I'm excuse you, not sharing Philadelphia. Uh I'm skipping ahead. Sharing Detroit, that's the name that we gave our association. We're having an awareness event. Um, we we need you guys to show up so we can tell you guys what to do and give you keep you guys updated. Airbnb will blast that invite to all of the hosts in the city that have signed up for policy emails, and that's most hosts. So, you know, we were able to get our our email list and our membership up to a good 200 folks um in short order. And just to give you context, there's only about a thousand hosts in Detroit, probably about 1,200 now. So that's a big chunk of the hosting community, and that's that that's extremely hard to get organically. So, to kind of sum it up, connecting with the OTAs and letting them know that you're trying to start an association or grow your association, that's how you get that connection. They'll gladly blast your events to their um to the hosts on their email list, and then that's how you build your email list, and that's how you build your associate, uh, your association. And if you're using the right strategy, you can then activate them in certain ways uh and tell them what to do and how to support you so that you can get the job done. Now, those two things go hand in hand, and then the last pillar, which is the strong connection with the decision makers. That's what I like to call them. The decision makers are anybody who's has power to make this rule happen. So usually in the US, it's city council folks in cities. The states usually don't have the power to enforce property rules at least natively, like they can kind of do some stuff on the back end, but these decisions are all coming from the cities. So usually it's city council who has the power to enforce to pass these rules and enforce them. So to get a uh a connection with them, you use those other two pillars. So if you have a strong association, you can then raise funds to hire a lobbyist. And that's really important for mid to large size cities. Then the lobbyist is used to get you in the backrooms with these decision makers and then convince them and have them be on your side, which is actually very easy if you do it the right way. Because the big thing here is a lot of people think that we're the underdog, but we're actually favored to win these things if we do it the right way because city council cares about the underdogs. They get voted in by the underdogs. They're they're usually voted in on a platform of protecting

70% of hosts are local citizens, 70% of those are women entrepreneurs

SPEAKER_01 18:46

the underdogs, meaning the marginalized folks, the less fortunate, you know, not the rich folks, big fat cats, big companies. They're really trying to protect the local citizens and small businesses. And that's what the majority of uh short-term rental uh owners are. But again, it has to be done the right way because right now, most people think that we are a bunch of out-of-state big uh big companies that are buying up neighborhoods and throwing party houses and causing disturbances and raising rents for everybody. And all of that stuff is completely false. In the majority of cases, it's and I'm talking about the vast majority, it's usually 70% local citizens that are just trying to get their mortgages paid, trying to get their kids through college, trying to raise their families, trying to get up the next socioeconomic ladder. Um, actually, and then of those, 70% of those are women entrepreneurs. Um, 40% of those are black and brown entrepreneurs. And these are all, especially in the US, these are all demographics that the city councils want to protect, but they literally don't understand anything that I've just told you. They have no idea about any of that. They literally think that it is a bunch of out-of-state rich folks buying up neighborhoods, raising rent rates.

SPEAKER_02 20:04

So now, now we start like this takes me back to Arlington. You know, me and Micah went to some of those council meetings in Arlington back in the day, Arlington, Texas, where the Cowboys play and the Rangers and all that. Um, so, anyways, we went to those meetings and it was uh it was a lot of angry old people, you know, saying, get this out of our neighborhoods. That's who we're up against. And um, and we we thought we put up a good fight because I mean, compared to what's going on in Dallas, anyways, because we we filled up half of the half of the place on the left side of the aisle was all us, you know, wearing solidarity, wearing blue shirts together and all this stuff. And we started the the uh the Arlington, you know, short-term rental alliance, whatever. We started that, and then um, you know, we had that piece in place on the other side of the aisle was all the old angry people, you know, didn't want it in the neighborhoods, right? Led by an ex-mayor, which who has a lot of he has a lot of, you know, could pull a lot of strings in the city, right? Because he was mayor for like 20 years. And anyways, um the part we couldn't get was the uh was Airbnb to give a damn about it. They didn't, I mean, we reached out to them. This was in 2019 when we got banned. Um we reached out to them. They really I think they might have sent a message of uh encouragement or something. VRBO, on the other hand, they were more supportive, but I mean they didn't put their their hat in the ring either. Um, so we had the first part where we had, you know, we uh we had our meetings and we we would go to that and we go to the city council meetings and people would speak all the way to like 3 a.m. you know, those meetings where you let everybody speak, right? And it was and in the end they they still banned it anyways, except for like a one mile radius around the stadiums. That's I mean you know, which is the crack houses. Um so they they still banned it in like ninety nine percent of the city, even though we went through all that stuff, which was very discouraging. And and and now and I remember telling Micah, and we talked about this in the show before, that uh I was I was like, dude. Uh Jerry Jones is getting into the hotel industry. He's like, and then I was like, this is not good news for us, man. They're building these giant mega hotels right by the stadiums. And our days are probably numbered. And and sure enough, soon as those stadium those giant hotels got built, that's when they decided to coincidentally uh ban Airbnb in that city. And um, so we were going up against powerful people, right?

Jerry Jones and the hotel industry timing in Arlington

SPEAKER_02 22:22

And we were going up against people that had connections and all that stuff, and then they put all the angry old people up front like they're trying to get us banned by themselves, which I don't think that's what it was. Um, and we didn't have the help of Airbnb. So, so, anyways, a question I want to go back to first is why the hell do they want to ban it in Detroit? Wasn't Detroit struggling? Don't they want people to come there? Don't they want like um uh tourism? I mean, isn't that good for the city?

SPEAKER_01 22:48

So, what I've found is you really don't want to focus too much on why, on the why. Um I can tell you a hundred percent everywhere around the world, it is definitely an awareness issue, meaning they they're out of touch. The decision makers don't understand Airbnb, they don't understand who operates it. Um there can also be other tertiary issues or reasons behind the scenes. Um but I I always like I always recommend that folks don't focus too much on why and focus on the focus on the strategy at hand because as long as you know that the awareness side is a big piece of it, that's really the part to solve. And the fact that you're favored to win because you guys are you guys are the underdog, and that's really who what city council is supposed to be protecting. And I don't mean like supposed to as like we think that. So they care way more about public image, getting votes. Um, like they I'm telling you, in in almost all these cities, that's what keeps them in. It doesn't matter if they got some crazy fat check, they want to be voted back into office. And in the fact that it's a collective, there's always gonna be folks that okay, maybe one person is really with the opposition, but the other folks aren't getting a piece of that. They're not on that side. They're they're more incentivized by the local folks and the the people that are on you, that that are on the that that operate short-term rentals. But um, I'll tell you in Detroit, I mean we we did find out, but I want I will really want to emphasize that it's inconsequential if you're in terms of trying to get the job done. But what we found out was that it was the um excuse me, it was the housekeeping unions. So think about it like this when you do short-term rentals, you nine times out of ten are hiring a housekeeper or housekeeping company to do the cleanings. And then the cleanings, those, you know, that those individuals, they can operate this as their own business, and you know, they're self-sufficient. And I think you know, we all know we're all short-term rental hosts ourselves. We provide uh at least I would say the the great hosts provide a lot of opportunities and a lot of benefits to our housekeeping team, right? Because they're the lifeblood of our business. If the properties aren't cleaned and maintained, we don't have a business, right? So there are tons of housekeeping businesses that are making um, you know, great income, and they don't have to do an alternative, which is cleaning for a hotel company, uh not cleaning for a hotel or cleaning for some other um company that maybe does residentials and they and they have a large reach, and that's the only way that they can make the income that they would be making, just cleaning short-term rentals um, or doing that partially. So basically on Capitol Hill, uh, and this is you know a national uh union, uh, the housekeeping union. Uh we basically heard that they were telling people, telling the representatives in the city council members from different cities, hey, you guys need to push this, and you know, we need we need to start pushing Airbnbs to get out of here because you uh housekeeping unions don't get a cut of you know any of that revenue coming in. So that was specifically for Detroit, a big driving force of that. And the person who spearheaded it was a big proponent of unions. Like unions were very supportive of her. That was where her background was, her base and everything. So that's where we found out that it mainly came from on that end. Um, but see, a lot of people think that it's the hotel industry and things like that. In this case, and this is in a lot of cases, actually, the hotel industry actually can get benefits from Airbnb. Because for specifically in Michigan, uh well, I'll stick specifically with Detroit because

Hotels benefit from Airbnb taxes - the real enemy is misunderstanding

SPEAKER_01 26:45

it can change in different cities. But in Detroit, the hotel industry gets a cut of the taxes paid by Airbnb. So basically, when Airbnb makes more money and pays more taxes, the hotel industry gets a cut of that. So they're benefited by Airbnbs. And um, there's a lot of events that likely wouldn't have the turnout um in terms of the audience because there wouldn't be enough hotels to fill them up in Detroit. Uh so you know, they need Airbnb in a lot of cases. But see, if you think too much about that, you're not thinking about the main um solution, which is still awareness and advocacy, but doing it the right way. So um that's what we used to stop that. But yeah, I can tell you that's that's what was behind that situation. And it can slightly vary city to city. But the beautiful thing is the awareness side is what the big issue is. Because if they knew who you guys were, they wouldn't really be able, they they would know they wouldn't have a good um chance of winning. It would look horrible. It's like saying something like, hey, we want to do a bill that's gonna hurt well, you know, hurt restaurants right now or hurt, you know, hurt small business restaurants or hurt um uh corner stores or things like that. Uh like these when they when people understand that these are neighborhood businesses and not outside entities buying up neighborhoods and doing X, Y, and Z and causing disturbances, they they can't they can't rally on that platform. That's why we're so poised to win. And I'd say that's the biggest reason why we haven't lost is because we've, you know, we've I we've we've we've used that to our advantage. And that's really the whole industry worldwide. It's not this is a young, small, like this is you know, this industry is made up of uh the majority small business owners, and those are the people that worldwide uh cities want to protect the most.

SPEAKER_02 28:45

So, why is it so important to hire a lobbyist? And and where the hell do you find a lobbyist?

SPEAKER_01 28:51

For sure. So I'll I'll give you a story. Uh, I'll talk about Detroit again. So so in Detroit, what we did first, we didn't know that we needed a lobbyist. And you know, some people were even thinking about, oh, let's do a lawsuit, and I can go into that later. But we were just trying to figure out what to do. And so we were trying everything. So we looked into the lawsuit route, we looked into the lobbyist route, we looked into uh just the us pleading our case in different places. And the thing is, uh I'll give you one example. Uh, first of all, all of these, you know, city council members, it's uh the it's all of this stuff is politics in general is based on relationships. And you're dealing with an industry where nobody really has great relationships with the city council, or we would have we wouldn't have these issues to begin with, right? This is an industry that's completely grassroots. So the folks that are a part of these industries don't know they're city council members, they don't have any connections, they're you know, regular folks, regular local citizens, right? So we tried, you know, going to the, you know, there would be even the the people, the the city council members spearheading the bill, they tried to they they they asked us to you know have a private audience with them, uh, even when we just started the association early on. It's like, oh, you know, we'd love to you know talk to you. And yeah, you know, we we talked to them, and you know, they sounded very, very uh understanding and and and they you know they they they talked a really good game. Guess what? That changed absolutely nothing. Um we we we we went to different um meetings that city council members individually had. So they'll have like you know a coffee and conversation in the community, they'll have these little community events. You go there and you speak to them, and they could be interested too, but again, it it doesn't hit home. It doesn't there the the it's it's literally not about what you're saying. I think it's everybody understands generally that this is a good industry if you're in it, right? That this is a helpful industry and that we're not you know threatening people, but it's the issue is how to con how to convince that to others. It's like going to a court case and saying, oh, you know, I'll represent myself instead of hiring an attorney. Uh you know, uh it's always recommended to do that because the attorney knows the law, first of all, and your your lobbyist will know the politics, they'll understand the law of how the things work in the city. Do you see what I'm saying? And then also lawyers have uh connections. They might know the judge, they might know this person, they might, you know, they they know this, this, and that. Same thing with the um lobbyists. So it's the same reason why you wouldn't try and defend yourself in court um if there was a severe issue. It you you could have all the best intentions, but it's not going to go over correctly

How to find a lobbyist - call the city clerk or Google political consultants

SPEAKER_01 31:37

at all. And that I'd say that's the biggest reason why most cities fail is because they don't do this part right. Um and so going back to Detroit, you know, we failed on like all the other things. And when we got to the lobbyist part, we uh there was somebody that somebody knew that kind of wanted to throw their hat in the ring and kind of do it a little pro bono, but then they got caught up in something, so they they couldn't do anything. So we realized, okay, we're gonna need to pay for this lobbyist, and we're just gonna put our money where our mouth is. So we called the clerk's office at the city and asked for uh basically a list of consultants. Because a lot what people understand is a lot of consultants, they work in the city hall. They work right next to all the politicians. They're in meetings with these folks, like they're they're really a part of this, a part of the system. So you can call your city clerk and get a list of um uh consultants that you know deal with um even oh, do they deal with real estate-related matters? You can even go into that. You can search political consultant on Google, literally, doing a Google search. That's uh where we found our political consultants in Philadelphia. I'm I'm consulting with them. And uh we found our lobbyists in Philadelphia by doing that. And then we talk to them about the issue, and all it the the real the real determination to finding a good lobbyist is just talking to them about your issue and seeing if they resonate with it. If they're nodding their head and they're like, oh yeah, oh man, okay, yeah, I get this. Yeah, this is no, no, this is this is this is this is a shame. We we have to stop this, then you know you have a good a good lobbyist. And if you look them up online or got them from a clerk, then they're gonna have those connections. You want to ask them about the connections they have. You know, you should be bringing up the council members and stuff, and they should be able to tell you how they're connected to these council members. It's really as simple as that. It's not it's actually not that hard to find them. Um, they just need to resonate most importantly with your cause so that they're fighting for you, and then you know, show uh talk about how they have their connections with these individuals. So um I'll stop there just to see if you have any other questions about that.

SPEAKER_02 33:37

But uh just one just one more big question. How much does a lobbyist cost?

SPEAKER_01 33:42

For sure. So lobbyists tend to cost between four and six thousand dollars a month.

SPEAKER_02 33:47

Who I want to be a lobbyist.

SPEAKER_01 33:51

Hey, uh I'll put it like this being a being a lawyer and doing a lawsuit uh would would would make you more money. Lawsuits lawyers cost usually double that. You're usually paying about 10 grand a month for a lawyer for a lawsuit for a short-term rental.

SPEAKER_02 34:07

Yeah, but I don't want to study.

SPEAKER_01 34:09

I hear you all. Well, you know what? Okay, yeah, it might be a might be a little easier, but see, it's a little, it's here's the thing about these consultants and why they're so powerful. It's not just that they have this knowledge of how the government works. These folks went to school with these people. I'm talking about like elementary school, middle school, high school. Some of these folks go to their church, they know their grandma, their their family friends. Like these are these are um folks who have such deep connections with the city that they can get paid for it. It's it's not even stuff that you can really learn or that uh you can maneuver. These folks, that's why they're so powerful because that is what that is the way that you properly open the door so that they actually listen to the industry. You need to get somebody who's like their family friend, they're went to school with them. It's like, hey, you know, and they've worked on they I'm telling you, that's how politics works. And that's that's why that's so powerful, and that's why, like a lawsuit, you know, lawsuits might work well for other industries, some other industries, but this is a young industry. This is an industry, like it's it's really about making sure that people like you. It's not about, and I don't mean like like like you, like you, but I'm saying like they need to understand you and be like amicable to your cause. Because the reason why they're doing this stuff worldwide is because they have a bad impression of short-term rentals. No lawsuit is gonna solve that. And the thing about lawsuits is uh, and I like we'll we'll wait on that. I won't go too deep. I don't want us to get veered off course, but lawsuits, you're playing their game at that

Lawsuits are 0% effective in mid-to-large cities for STR bans

SPEAKER_01 35:45

point. Like governments deal with lawsuits for breakfast. They have a multi, like just to give you an example, uh, the city of Philadelphia has a $400 million budget. If you think that you can beat them in a lawsuit with uh where they have a $400 million budget and they eat this stuff for breakfast, you've got another thing coming. That's why, literally, in a mid to large size city, 0% effective. No lawsuit has ever been effective for short-term rental um bands. No permanent change has been made from a lawsuit for short-term rental bands in at least a mid to large size city. So, yeah. But, anyways, let's go back to the consultant part. People got their notebooks uh handy, man. I y'all gonna have to rewind like it's it's it's it's a lot of uh it's a lot of info. I'm talking about the audience out there. I know, I know this is a lot, so and and you guys feel free to slow me down if I'm going too fast.

SPEAKER_03 36:36

No, you're good. So basically, you need to create the relationship with like an Airbnb R verbo and then go into grease in a few pockets of lobbyists. So, okay. No, I mean that's really what he said.

SPEAKER_01 36:48

I mean, you know. I mean, hey, you're look, you're you're grease and pockets either way. You're you're it's all grease and pockets, isn't it? You do a lawsuit, your grease and pockets. If there was no if they were if they were totally uh cool and like did what they were supposed to do with regulations, what are they? They had the perfect regulation. That means you're gonna have to pay for a license, you're gonna have to pay some taxes. It's always grease and pockets. So, yes, yes. So that's that's a big part of it.

SPEAKER_03 37:14

I'm happy you brought up the OTA part because uh because I was about to mess it all up because I told all the people in Dallas just go in there and tell them it's Airbnb's fault, and then we can all continue to operate. So, but we need to use the OTA to get their awareness out. So, okay. My next question is because you you've stopped them in like I think you said seven cities, right? Now, this is one thing one thing that always comes up. They said 10. 10.

SPEAKER_01 37:38

I'm sorry, correct.

SPEAKER_03 37:40

My bad. So this is one thing that always comes up the banter back and forth between the people who are pro-str and anti-STR. The pro STR people get into it with other pro STR people saying it's the red, it's the blue, right? So in the cities that you've banned it, you've stopped the bands in, are they majority red or are they majority blue? Or it you haven't really seen a difference.

SPEAKER_01 38:02

I haven't seen a difference, but it's a mix. It's more, I think I would say it's more blue, but no, it's a mix. Because this is the thing. Think about it like this. I mean, you're talking about how people go back and forth and red states are they probably used to say that, oh, red states, so you don't have to worry about regulations there. It's those blue states that you have to worry about it. Um, am I right? That's you, that was kind of the yeah, that because red states, you know, people say that they're for you know uh quote unquote property rights and things like that. So they it it's it's not situation there. But guess what? Dallas is say it again. That's it. Yeah, exactly, right? I mean, what look at what's happening right now. Dallas, which is the number that would be the number one poster child for uh a red uh part of the city in Texas. I mean, we understood Austin not wanting to, yeah, Austin having some tough restrictions, but Dallas? Yeah, it's blue. Anybody have guessed Dallas having tough restrictions?

SPEAKER_03 39:02

Yeah, they it's turned blue though.

SPEAKER_01 39:04

I mean, literally, like the city is the voters have turned blue. I actually didn't know that. Well, it but here's the thing. Right, and it's a red state overall. Uh, I mean, yeah, at least that helps, but yeah, that's the thing. It's the the whole situation is if they want to shut you down, they will find a way. It does not matter about property right claims, etc. etc. That's why this is all an awareness game. You like they don't understand that you guys are not their enemy. You see what I'm saying? But and that's a worldwide issue. So red states are not immune, as been proven by Texas, um, and and and other states, blue states are definitely not immune either. This is an awareness thing, this goes across party lines. This that's that's the issue. Um, it's just a fundamental misunderstanding about the industry, and nobody's doing enough to change that, except except for us. That's what we're that's what we're looking to to change worldwide.

SPEAKER_03 39:58

And I noticed you said awareness,

Age and familiarity - governments always react poorly to new industries

SPEAKER_03 40:00

and I'm happy you brought that word up because every time that I've seen it, like whenever you walk into these city council meetings, I had I had uh the last one, I was in the Dallas one and I had uh posted it on uh Instagram of the people that were for it and the people that were against it. And this girl, this girl fan of the show hit me up and said, uh, dear home holy mother of old white people, you know. So have you noticed have you noticed it's usually because I've always said it seems to be old versus young, and that's why the awareness things come in because if you look at the age of the city council, it's usually older. Because I met with one of the city councils of Dallas and he was a kind of younger guy. Um, he was probably in his early 40s, but he told me, he told me and my wife, he goes, Honestly, if y'all really want to start getting stuff like this past, he said somebody your age is gonna start running, has to start running for city council. So have you seen it's like maybe like an age thing that's involved as well?

SPEAKER_01 40:52

So that's definitely a big piece of it. The best way to look at it is it is the unfamiliar versus the familiar. And as with most new technology, it's adopted by younger folks before it it permeates to the new, to the older folks. And this is the same with Uber, the same with uh Facebook, say you know, social media, all of it, smartphones, and the biggest thing is that new industries, new industries usually come up quickly and governments act slowly. So, yes, it's it's older folks, but I would just look at it like this governments in general are always gonna have a bad or a unclear perception of new technologies and new industries. What's happening with Airbnb and short-term rentals is not new. It's just every single industry has its own way of solving the issue if they're able to solve the issue. So Uber and Lyft had the same issues. Um, I mean, social media right now is having the same issues. Now they're starting to enact laws and and really focus on the effect that social media has on the population, right? So, government, there's always this, they call it almost like a pendulum where there's a period of time where if it's left unchecked, the government will be extremely harsh on an industry. And then after a number of years, it swings the other way now that they when they finally get that understanding. Uh, that's what happens if things go unchecked. Uh, but here's the thing if that was the case, like a lot of industries have been wiped out or have been crippled because of that. So Uber and Lyft was successful in defeating bad regulations, and that's why they're, you know, the the household name. If it was something where Uber and Lyft was really banned in a lot of cities, like they were trying to do, Uber and Lyft wouldn't have the market share that it has. So it's not just short-term rentals that's having this issue, um, but every industry has its own way of solving the problem. So, short-term rentals, we've identified the way to solve the problem. We just need to bring this worldwide and get this done.

SPEAKER_02 42:56

Now, okay, so when all this stuff was going on and um Airbnb did a thing, they went public and they got all infused with billions of dollars, right? So now and then which which literally made them, you know, on paper bigger than all the the top five hotel chains in the world combined, you know, uh value-wise and money-wise. Are they pouring money into these big cities to pay for lobbyists to help fight, you know, fight the fight and keep it going?

SPEAKER_01 43:26

For sure. So I'll I'll I'll tell you, and I think what I'm gonna do also, I owe it to you guys to give you a full start to finish on how to stop a ban. Because uh, this will a lot of that will answer the questions that you have now. But I'm I'm happy to I'm I'm glad that we're talking about this too, because this this allows us to go into the details of things that you guys are wondering about, and I'm sure I know tons of people uh wonder about as well. So um, with what you're saying, with Airbnb specifically, they are doing a lot to stop this on their end. The issue is they can't stop it on their end. They're weak in this case. They're strong on the business side, but they're weak on the policy side. And the reason why is because of how this works with properties. And this is actually a good comparison. So think about it like this. So Uber and Lyft, I think we all heard about the issues that they had in the beginning where there was regulation that was being proposed, and taxis were lobbying against them and all that stuff, right? And the way we we probably all saw that was okay, Uber and Lyft poured a ton of money in the lobbyists and they start talking to the folks and they they kind of work things out, right? Right. So that's generally what they did. They did do some other stuff similar to what Airbnb tries to do, where they get the you know, the community to, you know, send the email to their city council person or whatever. Uh, I don't know if you guys have heard of this, but like Airbnb has something where you can, it's like a little form and you just literally put in your name and it has a pre-written letter, and then you just hit send and it's supposed to go to a city council person. You know, that's something that that that can be good, but it's not at all, you know, again, that's it's probably 10% helpful, but it you know, it doesn't hurt. But Uber and Lyft were able to do that and and and and basically get this stuff finished. But that's dealing with cars. Dealing with property is an entirely different ball game. Cars are something that it could that can be kind of handled on a large corporate multinational level, right? Because cars aren't related to any location, they're cars, they go to different places, they're mobile by nature, right? Property is you should think about it like this property is the lifeblood of cities. Like property taxes, homeowners who are voters, like property is such a big deal in a city. That stuff is very the power is in the city and the citizens of the city to really um make changes there. So when Airbnb tries to, you know, uh lobby and advocate to keep them in play, the cities don't care. They see them as the big corporation that's like, you know, trying to influence their local city and their properties. Does that make sense? Yeah, that's the big difference here, and that's why Airbnb isn't able to stop this on their own. They're very weak when it comes to policy, and it's not their fault. Like it, that's just they they don't have the power to stop this. The power is in the people's hands, which is a really good thing because that guess what? That means that it's in y'all's hands, but it has to be done the right way. Like that, that's the big, the, the, the big uh difference there. So, yeah, Airbnb and all the cities that we've that we've done um stuff in, and in the cities where they banned it, Airbnb's paid for lobbyists, you know, got the best lobbyists, did what they could do, but it's it's it's very ineffective. You have to have the people doing the work there for it to make a difference because it's dealing with property, completely different from cars and other other stuff and other industries. That's that's that's what makes it so so different. Um, so I I should go kind of from start to finish uh so you guys see how this fully plays out. So I know I had first talked about how in the beginning

Start to finish - fundraiser events with Airbnb to pay for lobbyists

SPEAKER_01 47:12

we started the association, we got Airbnb to promote it and promote it uh promote events so that we get members into the association. Um, and then what we did, and I'm gonna I'm gonna fast forward past all the stuff we tried. I'm gonna tell you what worked uh so that you guys understand what to do. So then what we did is we had these events. Um also Airbnb will participate in these events as well. So um once we we had one large event where Airbnb flew in, um, two of the folks came and participated, and we did a fundraiser and we told them our strategy, which is basically what I've told you the three pillars where we we have a connection with Airbnb. We have a connection, we have a strong association, and we need to connect with city council through lobbyists, and we're going to uh get the decision makers to listen. And so we had that event, and uh it was a fundraiser so we could raise money to pay for these lobbyists, and we were able to raise the money that way. And the uh then when we uh you know, so we paid the lobbyists, and when we got into our first meetings, this is how we did the meeting so that the decision makers would listen. We got so uh I'll start with one person from a district, and I'll keep the names out of things just to kind of because these are people that I have on speed dial now. I don't want to like throw anybody under the bus. These are you know behind-the-scenes conversations, but basically, so we got somebody from district four. Uh, we we got a one-on-one audience with the city council member in District Four of Detroit. So, what we did is we brought a citizen from District Four who is somebody that they care about. So the person in District Four really cared about um small business owners and women's rights. So we got a woman who is a uh short-term rental business owner that is badly, that would be badly affected by this bill. And we did almost none of the talking. We literally just had let them explain their story, why short-term rentals are good for them and their family, um, why it's good for their community, and what would happen to their family if short-term rentals were banned. And that's literally all that they said. They just explained that. And the city council member, and we we got a couple of folks. It was two folks that fit that bill. And that city council member really resonated with that. We literally rinsed and repeated. We did the same thing for the next council member,

Matching the host's story to what the council member cares about

SPEAKER_01 49:42

whatever they cared about, we brought that person in who matches their profile. And we we let them speak. And we did that uh to most of the city council members, but we didn't have to do it to all of them. But that was what made the big changes there. It was the behind-the-scenes conversations that allowed them to actually listen. Because I know it sounds weird, and people always uh before they see the results, they always ask me, Wow, is that is this really what makes it so effective? Like it doesn't seem like that's that that big of a deal. It's literally the difference between it going in one ear and out the other and them actually caring. They do not care about you guys until you guys do it that way. And that's just how it goes. There's really no way to explain it better than that. Um, I think the only way you could really understand it is if maybe you were a city council person and you were in their shoes. And if you think about it, right, they're a city council person who's getting emails, calls, hundreds every day. They have a whole staff that handles their calls, right? There's tons of people talking about issues like, hey, this is hurting me, this is this, this is that, stop this, stop that. They have to clear through the noise and and like through in some fashion. So if there is somebody who they went to school with, they went to high school with, that they are in meetings with all the time, aka the lobbyist, saying, Hey, you need to speak to these folks at Sharing Detroit. There, you know, there's really a big issue happening with this bill. I think it's gonna affect your base. This, you know, this is gonna affect your voters. This is gonna affect what's going on here. Let's have a one-on-one meeting. Okay, so that now they're not looking at their thousands of emails, thousands of phone calls that they're getting all the time that go in one ear and out the other, and they're talking to somebody that they know and and and respect, going into a private meeting with an organization that has paid for a lobbyist. So you know that they must be representing a large base just by that alone. And then you see somebody who is exactly the person that you based your platform on uh speaking about how this is such an issue. That those are the types of entities that they listen to. They don't have time to listen to anybody else. Does that make sense? They're constantly getting inundated with calls, messages, hey, this is bad, this is bad. That's how you actually get them to listen. That's what makes it so uh impactful. But see, it's not easy to see that on the other side. We think it's affecting us, and so why don't they listen to me when I'm at a council meeting? They they don't care that you should think of council meetings as like theater. It's like a show. By the time it goes there, they're they got the stone face. They're just sitting there, they're going through the motions, they're thinking about what to eat later on tonight, you know. Like it, it's if you're just at the council meetings, it's too late. Like they've already been making their decisions behind closed doors. The council meetings are just it's it's I hate to say it in a bad way, but it is just it's for show. It's so they can say they publicly brought this to light, and and they and they by law gave the public um um what's the word? They were able to, they gave the public a platform to speak about it.

SPEAKER_02 52:49

So now now, even if you hired Alex Stein to go up there and rap about Vladimir Putin must die, it still wouldn't help.

SPEAKER_01 52:58

You know, see, I I I gotta catch up with my current events. I mean, I know about obviously the war in Ukraine, but who's Alex Stein? And okay, man, I not now I gotta just Google this. I'm gonna have to YouTube this.

SPEAKER_02 53:09

Yeah, we'll send it to you, man. It went viral. It was a few months ago. Remember, Michael's the one that sent it to me. It's some guy rapping in in front of the city council, and he rapped for a good like five minutes and they didn't stop him. So I don't know. Anyways, it went viral. Perhaps maybe one of us can rap, uh, do an Airbnb rap, and then we'll go viral. I don't know. But yeah, it's gonna help, anyways.

SPEAKER_01 53:32

Never say never, okay.

Behind closed doors is where doubt spreads and bans get pulled

SPEAKER_01 53:35

In general, any publicity is good publicity, so uh it definitely doesn't hurt. That's that's all I gotta say. At least it might just get you some more fundraising dollars to to really keep that lobbyist going. But uh, but yeah. Um, but so so uh to kind of wrap up the strategy. So when we got that final pillar in place, it went from uh a literally unanimous decision to move this bill forward to get passed, to then there being conversations behind closed doors. City council members have meetings on their own, and the people that we talk to, it's spread. It's like it's like uh it's like poisoning the well or whatever. I hate to say it like that. It's or let's say it's it's it's an antidote to the well. Because once people start getting doubts, then they start telling the other council members. And then now that they realize that there's another side to this, and there's a constituency that it that's actually represented, they're like, oh wait, this isn't a slam dunk like I thought it was. This is actually not good. This might be hurting the people that I care about. So then it started becoming mixed. And then once they went to that vote, um, and again, so I remember I said it was two weeks. Thankfully, when we did that first meeting, we were able to get it delayed for about uh it was like two months. Then that gave us some time to do what we're doing right now. But basically, once it got to that final vote, they pulled the ban because the city council members were not gonna vote for it. And the person who spearheaded the bill, rather than actually lose face by actually bringing it to vote and losing, they're like, Okay, nope, nope, I'm pulling out. Nope, we're gonna, we're not, we're not gonna do it. So that's yeah, so that's how the ban got pulled. Again, all of this stuff happens behind closed doors. And the only way to get that door open is through the relationship with the lobbyists and the city council members and the association. It's it's really that simple. So you you know, that's the last, that's the pillar that really gets the job done. But the other two pillars is what allows you to actually get that lobbyist and uh and then have the other stuff that you need to move forward.

SPEAKER_02 55:41

That is crazy. So the the cleaners uh uh unions didn't come after you after that happened?

SPEAKER_01 55:47

Uh, you know, hey, I might have got some hate mail. I don't know. Uh so still standing so far, still standing, you know.

SPEAKER_02 55:54

That's good, man. So so okay, that's that's one way you were able to prevent you know regular bad regulations to go through or whatever. Is there is it is it once they're in, is it damn near impossible to get them overturned?

SPEAKER_01 56:08

So the great answer to that is no. Um, and that's actually referenced by what we're doing in Philadelphia. So the the thing that was technically untested was how how do we get a bill that's already in law removed? And we're successfully doing that in Philadelphia. And the great news is that it is the same strategy as preventing that bill from getting passed. It's just more steps, but it's the same strategy. So it's literally the same three pillars. But what then has to happen is the work has to be done to get that uh ban unwound. So that's just adds extra steps on the policy side. But like I said, where there's a will, there's a way. If they, if you get city council on your side, and it doesn't, and again, you don't need the majority of them on your side. You just need a number of folks where it's like it's no longer unanimous. That's really it's it's not that it's really not that difficult. Once you do that, then you have the power to get this changed and removed. So in Philadelphia, the same thing happened as what we're doing in Detroit. But what uh what we what we ended up doing is because the bill got passed, but it hadn't been enforced yet, our goal was to delay that enforcement as much as possible. And so first it was delayed by like two months, and then it

Philadelphia ban delayed from April 2022 to January 2023

SPEAKER_01 57:32

got delayed by um I want to say it was one more month, something like that. But the big turning point was when we got the ban delayed uh by more than six months. So it was supposed to go into effect in April of 2022, it got pushed to July of 2022, and and then through our advocacy efforts, we knew we really struck a chord when they then delayed it all the way to 2023, January of 2023. So um, and there again, it's the same reasons why they did that. It's because we got the decision makers to listen to us and they realized that this was actually a mistake, and they even said themselves, if we if we knew about you guys or if you guys had started this association before we passed the bill, this bill wouldn't have even been passed.

SPEAKER_04 58:23

Oh wow.

SPEAKER_01 58:25

So now we're doing the work to get the bill unwound and we're going through that process.

SPEAKER_02 58:32

That's man, that's cool, dude. Uh yeah, we we heard everybody freaking out about Philadelphia, and that's uh that's awesome that you got them to at least delay it for six months. Um, I don't know if that happens to fall on some dates when votes when voting happens, and then and or what is there anything to the six months or what's going on there?

SPEAKER_01 58:51

Um, I mean the six months was so we'll go with the date. The date is January 2023, January 3rd.

SPEAKER_02 59:01

And what I was really what type of ban? What type of ban is it? Full ban?

SPEAKER_01 59:05

Oh, it's it's it's a base, it's like a full-on ban. It's a zone, it's zoning related, um, but it would ban between 70 to 90 percent of short-term rentals by zoning. So you can only do it and basically you have to be zoned as a hotel to be able to operate a short-term rental. That's basically how it how it reads. And that's only that's really 10% of the housing stock. You know? So, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 59:30

And real quick, who was behind that one?

SPEAKER_01 59:35

Uh it's I can say, but uh again, I do want to stress it, it really doesn't matter so much. The awareness is the biggest thing because no matter what, that wouldn't have gotten passed if we had made that awareness sooner. But you know, we wouldn't have to be a good one. Nobody knew about it. They didn't call on me. They, you know, we were but uh we believe that it's partly uh a developer that's big in the city that doesn't like short-term rentals in their in their properties. There's a developer that's a city council member, has like like probably a hundred million, I think, in real estate, something like that. They're like one of the biggest real estate private owners. Um that's one that's one um um person that's like you know piling into this. But again, that see, when when when when people think about it like that, they're they're really looking at, oh man, like it'd be a different difference if it mattered, but it really still doesn't matter because even they don't have the power to really get city council to change uh to change this. Um because if they knew what the industry really was, no city council member is gonna try and go against that and look like they're going against the little guy, going against the people that they protect. They're not gonna get voted in again. They're gonna be looked at as like a pariah, like it is just, you know, and and and and and uh God forbid they get caught taking some bribes or some funding and stuff like that. It's over for them. Do you see what I'm saying? Like, this is not the boogeyman. That's really not what people should be worried about. It's the awareness side. The reason why they're doing this is because they don't

Emotions beat logic - dollars and data are secondary to human stories

SPEAKER_01 1:01:07

understand the industry. They think that it's a bunch of party houses. They think that it's uh affecting affordable housing in a big way. And again, all of this has been disproven in most cities. It it if it affects affordable housing, it's two ways, very, very small, small degree. Um, that absolutely outway is outweighed by the jobs that it creates and the things that are happening, you know, for the for the business itself. Um so long story short, it's it's an awareness thing, which is a beautiful thing, because the real thing here is that means that the that we don't have as many enemies as we think we have, and they're not as powerful as we think they really are.

SPEAKER_03 1:01:42

That's a good point. Yeah, I'm happy. And then that goes back to having that strong STR association showing them, hey, we're just some little guys trying to make it. So, like you know in Philly, like, because if they have a you said they have a $400 million budget for a lawsuit, and then you now you back that with so that's that's their that's their government budget in general.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:02

So not for one lawsuit, but I'm saying, yeah, that's their total budget. But I mean, come on, yeah, a slice of that is even a sliver of that is way more than what uh hosts are probably willing to put up, right?

SPEAKER_03 1:02:14

Plus you got another hundred million dollar developer dude over here. Now, I mean, so okay, this is what happened in Dallas, right? Dallas did a pushback. They're like, hey, well, it's not gonna take this amount of time for us to figure out regulations. A week, two weeks later, they're like, oh, well, we came up with three plans, right? So that those six months, and I want you to kind of be honest with us, you know, are those good, is that good six months or bad six months for operators, right? Like the lobbyist, I mean not the lobbyists, but the city council isn't back there during those six months taking track of who's paying taxes or who's operating and then making their decision off that, or are they just what what are those six months for the council look like? What's your lobbyist doing in that time?

SPEAKER_01 1:02:56

For for Philly, right?

SPEAKER_03 1:02:57

Yeah, for just yeah, for Philly, just any yeah, right, right, right.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:01

So, so oh yeah, so so here's the thing. Uh, yeah, the lobbies have been working, STR Hero's been working, like sharing Philadelphia. Like we've we've all been doing stuff behind the scenes. The main thing that's happening now is, and then this is at behest of you know the decision makers, which are on our side. They're like, hey, you know, you you guys, uh to to to basically to bring this home, you guys need to keep this in the public eye, you guys need to, you know, basically rally the troops, make sure that this is still an issue for when um this gets brought back up again. Meaning, so you know, this is the summertime. Uh council goes on recess in Philadelphia around this time, and they're getting back in in session in September. So we've been using this time to uh to have another event with Airbnb as well, letting everybody know about what's going on. So rallying the troops, um raising, raising funds uh uh to basically get the the last uh leg of this thing done. And what we've also done is put out a press release, uh, which again the consultants helped us with. They have connections to all the the uh the the news sources. So we got a big old list of like I'm talking like a hundred emails of like just okay, send the press release to these folks so that we can get a news article out. So uh that's what we've been doing, and it's basically been to keep this in the public eye. So when they come back in September and we resume our meetings with the decision makers, we then can move forward with getting the uh the bill undone. So the issue with the bill, a bill being already in place is that you need to, the extra step is that you just have to make sure that the appetite is there, uh remains there for city council to finish the job. And to do that, you just have to make sure that you um spread the word, which is actually that's the easy thing to do. That's what you know. You guys were talking about how you had half the room was uh was was hosts. You know, it's easy to spread the word. Um, and and that's the same thing with with the other cities we've worked in. Like, yeah, getting people to show up to council meetings

Rally the troops so council keeps the appetite for change

SPEAKER_01 1:05:05

isn't isn't a hard thing. That's just not the most effective thing, right? But now that's literally all we have left to do is just make sure that people are still contacting their council members about this and hooting and hollering, and not hollering in a bad way, but I'm saying, like, you know, saying, hey, you know, this is this is really helpful for me, the short-term rental industry, this is going to affect my family, specifically things like that. So that's literally the last thing that we have to do. And then they're just gonna be, you know, moving forward and and and making the changes uh on their end.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:33

Now, now, is your goal you know, to get um you know, Airbnb 100% legal in a city, no regulations, or is your goal for good regulations? Are there good regulations? What what are y'all what are y'all shooting for?

SPEAKER_03 1:05:46

Damn, good question. I love that.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:48

Oh, for sure. Great question. So first of all, our stance worldwide is that we think regulations are necessary, it's the next evolution of the industry. That's good. regulations will keep bad actors out the bad regulations throw the baby out with the bathwater and and restricts the industry like to the point where it will it will really dismantle it. Um so what we normally do is we really push for regulation but but regulation that gives access to everyone. So everybody has the access to do it but if they make if they make certain transgressions um or if they you know that that's really the the main thing if they make certain transgressions then they you lose the ability to have their license. And that's what we've seen in in almost all the cities that we've had success in it's that's basically what ends up happening. For instance with Detroit you know we got the band pulled completely and and and and really so what what we're looking to do uh now we would really like to have something a little more robust in place because right now there's no regulations in Detroit they just pulled it and it's been tabled it's done it's not coming back it is done and they haven't brought up any they they haven't put any regulations in place. But that's usually how these things go. When you're successful it usually is like a 100% victory. It's not where they you have a half measure even if you negotiate on half measures. So in Detroit we have negotiations where it's like hey you know well we'd like it to be like this and then we what we like to do is present like a three strike rule. Because they're clearly causing a huge disturbance and they're not learning from their mistakes. But then they came back with oh well no we don't want to do that but let's do uh where everybody um one second I'm trying to remember like because it really doesn't matter anymore. That's kind of the point that I'm really trying to make here they they came back with uh well what we like to do is let's have it where it's everybody can operate one unit that's their primary resident plus one meaning meaning you can you can only have two units ever which is still horrible right um that's and again in the negotiation side of things what that means is you negotiate with the person who spearheaded the bill so this is the person that's most against it. You're not negotiating with the rest of the city you're negotiating with the person who spearheaded the bill so that's what they brought back and it was like well no that doesn't sound too good. And then it got to that vote and city council was not in agreement either. So it got pulled completely. So you actually have a very good shot at just getting a 100%

100% victories are common - Columbus, Ohio stumbled onto the strategy

SPEAKER_01 1:08:40

victory um let's put it like this you have like you'll get a victory but in that victory it's not where you're gonna have some people not able to host what usually happens is it's wide open and you have everybody you know getting a license maybe and then later on discussions can be had on how to you know help keep out the bad actors more. I'll give you one example too uh this is in Columbus Ohio and so Columbus Ohio is the one city where they did what we did in Detroit uh on their own that's the only city worldwide that stumbled upon the same strategy and I want to give a shout out to Ben Vale he's uh uh part of our our our our team he's in our mastermind and so it was the literally the same thing the same thing I'm telling you is what he did and he was 100% successful in Columbus and they were even proposing some things oh well let's do this and it's like okay well we'd rather have this no complete victory all you got to do is apply to get a license and you get one and then um about three years later what the city council brought back was hey we want to put something in to keep out bad actors and they along with the association there brought in play the three strike rule which I think is a good thing and it's literally what I just told you where it is if some if like the fire marshal like something like like it is it's not just like a neighbor complaint.

SPEAKER_03 1:10:09

I'm talking like you got to have real city officials come into your house because of a bad issue if that happens three times then you lose your license so that's that's where they're at right now and we think that's a really great example of where everybody could be um it's it's that that to

City economics do not matter - Charlotte and Chicago are proof

SPEAKER_03 1:10:32

me that's a really good uh at least a good start but that's that's that's that that's helpful that's healthy you know do you oh do you think the economics of a city has anything to do with it like I know Columbus is like a huge college town right so they need housing right so like in me and Steve's situation we're in Arlington Jerry's here he can pull a few strings and now there's a bunch of hotels put getting thrown up and then if you look at like Detroit like I just got back from Detroit and uh look pretty abandoned you know I was like it's pretty city's pretty abandoned and uh you know it's got a I downtown yeah yeah I was just up there like two weeks ago and downtown Detroit uh no I was in north end and then I did oh oh oh no no no north end's good but no north end is yeah no north end just looks abandoned I mean you so yes you you were correct there's a lot of abandoned areas so the reason you gotta get to you gotta get to the you gotta get to downtown man I think I went to Ford Field all that but okay all right cool cool I'm just making sure just making sure yes no I know what you're saying though yeah yeah yeah I'm walking a lot of vacant still a lot of vacant homes in in Detroit yeah I was very no the city I felt cool in the city you know I went to the dispensary they're playing OJ the juice man I'm like oh this is my type of hood shit but overall oh man yeah I was like that sounds like the neighborhoods yeah yeah yeah overall I was like maybe you know Detroit was like well they got this huge advocacy and they're trying to bring people to the city maybe they're like hey this is what the city needs have you seen like different like economics playing a role in this in the city council's decision or no not so much because like just to give you an example like some of the cities where we've had success is so Charlotte North Carolina um which is you know very different from Detroit um Chicago Illinois which is obviously extremely different from Detroit um we we had success there they like they had done regulations way before we were ever asked to consult for them what we did is so their their regulations weren't horrible and what we did is we re-established the connection between Airbnb and the association and the city government and the association.

SPEAKER_01 1:12:43

And now if somebody has an issue where they actually can't get licensed there's actually things where the association can pull some strings and actually get some people licensed. Again this is not like a silver bullet but um but again it's it's it's it's that advocacy side making those relationships that that really does a world of difference. And so just to get just to giving you kind of an example of like where where we've been it's a place is completely different from Detroit in that in that sense. The long story short is no there's there's many benefits to short term rentals right yeah there's probably you know so even with Dallas there's probably tons of economic benefits you can think of with short-term rentals and remember it's not it's so the thing about this is it's not about it's really not about the money in that sense it really is it's about what what really makes the difference is again showing that the people that are being banned by this are the people they want to protect. And in every city basically in the world it's the same thing because in every city basically in the world it is local uh majority local small businesses that are being affected period so no is my short answer and the reasoning is is is basically that and just to give you an example as well a lot of people try and lead with the data and they try and lead with the dollars and like oh you're bringing in so many tax dollars why do you want to shut this off they don't care it's not about that they will literally this is not a logic battle it is an emotions battle it's an awareness it's a when I say awareness you're you're you're making them aware about the impact that will emotionally affect them meaning oh this is taking out businesses and folks that I'm supposed to be protecting and that's what happens first all of the the numbers and stuff it's it's it's secondary and so and again with us all being very business minded coming into this as a short terminal you know business owner it's it's like it's it's like another language right it it makes no sense. You're like well wait wait wait with the dollars and cents don't make sense here why are you shutting this off that's not how they think they're thinking purely on emotion. That's why they're banning you guys is because of emotion. All they're hearing is the cries of people saying hey there's a party here's this there's that they're not hearing from the 90% of great hosts that are going to be hurt by this. You see what I mean? And they're not hearing about you guys in the right way in the right channels. So that's really what's affecting it. And so I always say to people it's like when people start doing advocacy with me it's like I I I I start talking like I'd be like here, you know, this is the Yoda quote you have to unlearn what you have learned because basically everything you probably think about advocacy and like why people are getting banned is it's it's it's incorrect. But it's a good thing because if it was what we thought we'd be in a lot of trouble but it's not you know so that's a good thing. Stuff man good stuff um so is this like your full time your full time gig now going around and and you know saving cities from bans better me it better be man man these suits ain't cheap man I mean come on yeah uh so I'm still a I still have a short term rental brand um but I have a great team that's been uh doing most most of everything for me um so and it's really been my mission to uh to literally save the short term rental industry because the world needs it the world the short term rental industry worldwide needs this the same issues are happening worldwide and you know somebody's got to do it so um we actually we we have a goal to be working with 50 cities by the end of the year and we're uh you know to do that it's take it's it's you know it's it's uh it requires almost all of my time uh uh you know on the business side of things so yes this is the full time um thing this is this is the mission uh our that that that's our goal we we want to save the industry so you oh go ahead well i i hope you're getting paid uh paid well for your efforts man hey i start i started off for free saving my own business uh after that you know hey you look unfortunately folks uh let's put it like this yes we we cannot do this for free and we don't do this for free i will also say this too you know we understand that we're helping grassroots organizations like we're helping in in in a way people people to an extent who are who are less fortunate you know this industry is somewhat less fortunate because there's a lot of folks that don't have a lot of you know coin to rub together they've invested their their time and their money into their business and now they're on the back foot and they're they're about to get banned. So um you know we've been lucky to work with sponsors to who have helped us uh also fund these things uh but yeah you know this is completely grassroots and uh yeah yeah happy to be able to um support myself while you know helping the industry but we try to help out as much as possible and sponsors help us do that too and and folks like you guys out there if you guys want to donate please do um you know we'll we'll I'll I'll I'm gonna give you guys the link to sharing Philadelphia uh I I wanted to go to a specific place um at this time so you know that's that's that's what we're immediately looking to raise money for right now. We raise money for a lot of organizations but you know every dollar every dollar helps so everybody out there you know if you're one of us support us in this industry because this could be this will if it's not it's not a if it's when this will be happening in your neck of the woods and you want to be helped as well.

SPEAKER_03 1:18:30

I had a question for you. Yeah you said about your mastermind you because I I think I've seen Ben Vale on uh Facebook. So how would one join your mastermind is your mastermind

The STR Justice League mastermind - serious advocates only

SPEAKER_03 1:18:41

all about getting people from different cities to create advocacy groups or how does that work?

SPEAKER_01 1:18:46

For sure. So you know literally what we call it is the STR Justice League. And that's literally how you want to think about it. We are all for one and one for all. That means that we help each other with individual fights meaning so for instance Philadelphia when when they have an issue like they're in the mastermind we talk about it we work it out with them and um and they get that stuff done. But then they also help other folks in the mastermind with their issues. And so we are you know we are perfect for folks who one first of all you need to be dedicated you need to be serious about this because we don't just take on anybody that's just kind of half in or for lack of a better term half assing it because this is serious. This is you know you're protecting you're protecting at at least thousands of business owners and if not it if you and really at most you're protecting millions of people's property rights if you're taking this on. So we want people who are serious about this invested in the industry really want to see change and we help them solve their problems. So that's how we've been able to have all the successes we've had is working in these masterminds to solve these issues and uh we've been completely successful so far. So it's it's it's not for everybody. It's really for folks who want to either be a part of an association or start an association and they want to solve their regulation issue. They want to you know keep their businesses going from a ban or they want to prevent something like that from ever even happening. So you know we're the vitamin or we'll play this we're like the penicillin or the the the medicine but then we're also the vitamin we're the medicine if you're having an issue right now but then we're also the vitamin if you want to stay strong or be strong so that when the government tries to propose a ban, you're prepared or you already have the relationship with the government because of us. And they never even try and propose a ban. They they they actually reach out to you and say hey we want to do some regulations but let's make them fair regulations that are actually good for the industry. So that's who we're for and um yeah if if if you're if you're interested uh we we we do this on an interview basis so uh we'll have a 15 minute call and uh I'll uh and I actually personally handle those so I'll ask you questions to see if you're a good fit and we find you're a good fit we'll uh we'll we'll we'll we'll tell you about the options and all that stuff and and tell you what you need to move forward. Want to be an STR hero hit up theory exactly see it's not the STR hero it's str hero everybody who works with us is a hero that's really what it is.

SPEAKER_02 1:21:34

Now we got a question from a fan we'll just call her Julie G all right and she says have you been stuck in that suit since Austin and um is that zipper a little bit tricky to work so I'll answer the first part of that I may or may not have been showering in this suit and uh you know working out in this suit.

SPEAKER_01 1:21:58

No I'm just I'm totally kidding I uh uh I thankfully I have not I've been able to get out of the suit um you know got have my alter ego I gotta I I I gotta meet with people I gotta you know have regular conversations right so uh I'm able to put on my my alter ego and my my regular you know shirt and jeans and all that stuff Clark Kent style um but the zipper uh you know it's it's funny so I have to shout out I have to shout out Julie George and and and you know she is like she's she's like my big sister I'm telling you she's she's she's fantastic and I really appreciate her she actually first of all I have to give her a little uh I have to give her the credit for the spark of this because she uh in our clubhouse calls she was always talking about how oh you know and this just came you know out of nowhere she was like oh you know by the way it sounds like what you're doing you're saving the industry you know you're you're the superhero of the STR industry I'm like oh okay cool cool and I'm like all right that sounds interesting and uh and then it just became this running joke where uh she was like okay one of these days you're gonna have to have a you're gonna have to have a superhero outfit and you have to have on the tights so you better be doing your leg day and I'm like you know what I'm never skipping leg day uh I'm I'm I'm doing that I'm doing that yeah it's the funniest thing so all the OG listeners to the clubhouse remember probably remembers this because we brought it up at least uh a couple times a month and um you know all of a sudden I we just started doing some market research and testing things and that's really what people felt like they felt you know hey you know what you're doing I feel like you're a hero to the industry and you know we really needed to make this something that is bright and brings attention to the subject because this is the most important issue in the industry right no matter how much we learn no matter how great we are at our business if the government bans us we're done no matter how good we are so solving this is the most important thing in the industry so we had to bring something that would actually bring that attention to a somewhat boring subject right regulations aren't always the sexiest thing to talk about. And one more question from Julie G she said um if if you married if she married you would you get her a green card you look I'll I'll say this directly to Julie Julie you you can you have we could have whatever you want you could have whatever whatever you like whatever you like I I I will look green card extra passport you know what look anything any anything for you Julie Julie anything well cool man where can people find you and and you know send money and all that stuff for sure so um you can find me on uh you can find me on YouTube at str Hero uh we're building that up a lot we have a lot of

Where to find Theron and donate to Sharing Philadelphia

SPEAKER_01 1:24:55

our content on there we have a lot of uh events our Philly event with Airbnb was last posted on there so you can check that out and uh uh the best way to reach me is through Instagram which is the strhero though our website is strhero dot com and you can email me at Theron that's T is in Tom H is in Henry E is in everyone R is in Ronald O is in only N is in Nancy at the strhero.com so multiple ways to reach out I would say the quickest way just hit me up on Instagram the STRHero and if you want to donate go to sharingphiladelphia.org scroll down to the donate um section and and donate to the cause in Philadelphia we're on the home stretch we're about to you know we're about to do what people thought was impossible back in the day you know by by back in the day I mean you know yesterday by you know people still think it's impossible but you know success in 10 cities this is just uh another one where we want to have another success so uh yeah we we're really excited and we want to bring this worldwide so looking forward to helping people in a city near them thank you so much Theron for going out there and fighting the good fight for all of us man we we're 100% behind you man I appreciate that I appreciate that I'll say one last thing in closing Atlanta Dallas Oahu Hawaii y'all have not listened to my advice and you guys are losing because of it but it's not too late anybody in that area and I know you guys are in in this situation too send this to the board tell them I will consult with them for free just so they can get things started but they we need to we need to meet because uh you you you got it's not about you guys you guys are going to jeopardize thousands upon thousands of property owners and not even property owners excuse me thousands and thousands of citizens thousands and thousands of business owners if you guys don't uh do the right thing so uh I I know it's tough I know people are scared and they have to you know it's a lot of politics that goes into these associations they're there they want to do their own thing but you know you guys are doing the wrong thing and I want to help you guys so thanks to our sponsors we're able to help you guys for free to start off so that you guys can get the leg up so you know when this gets chopped up or whatever let's let's blast that out there because we want to save you guys but you guys have to step up well what one thing you you opened a can of worms you said Dallas in there. Hold on what what hasn't Dallas done oh they they had basically haven't done anything that I explained to you they don't have an association so they have an association but remember what I said an association a strong association is one that has the right strategy so they I to my knowledge and I I've this Is as of um at least two weeks ago, they have not hired a lobbyist, they haven't had any backroom conversations with uh the decision makers and the right folks that the decision makers care about, and that's key. And and this isn't something to disparage anybody. I'm just saying that is what's not happening, and that's what's causing them to lose. I'm happy it's basically the same solution everywhere.

SPEAKER_03 1:28:24

I'm happy you said that. Now we might we're gonna have to release your video a week early so we can post this to the uh Dallas Airbnb people because I didn't know they didn't have a lobbyist because they've been having these big drives selling wings and shit, and uh meaningful nobody look it it's again, it's I I think they have their heart in the right place, but it's it's not going the right way.

SPEAKER_01 1:28:47

Um from my knowledge, they they have only been doing the um what is it, the council of hearings. And as I mentioned to you guys, the council hearings is like the least effective part of everything. It's it really doesn't, it it does barely anything on its own. So um, but I'm willing, I'm willing to, you know, again, thanks to the sponsors, we're able to help them um to get started for free. We gotta get going though. It's times times of the essence.

SPEAKER_03 1:29:14

Hey man, Dallas out here having the fish fry for the funeral. All right, so yeah, thanks for it. We might have to release this one early, but yeah, thanks for that.

SPEAKER_01 1:29:21

You know, absolutely my pleasure, my pleasure. And uh, you know, I'm wishing you guys all the best. And uh, hey, if we're doing our part, then the short-terminal industry will definitely be safe.

SPEAKER_02 1:29:32

Thanks, Darren. We'll see you soon, man. All right, talk to y'all soon. See you. Take care. Now go fly, fly, fly away.

SPEAKER_03 1:29:47

That was greatness. Some good stuff, man. Yeah, that was a good episode. Dang, I kind of threw me for a loop, the Dallas thing, man, because I thought they were on top of their stuff, but clearly not. Uh, so I'll definitely be talking to a few Dallas people. Just make sure that we're on top of our stuff over there. So uh this is a really good episode. He answered a lot of questions I had. Um, basically, I have a whole note notebook for questions I had, but yeah, I'm happy you brought up the whole you do have to involve the OTAs thing because you know me, I'm not an Airbnb advocate, but I guess you do have to use them.

SPEAKER_02 1:30:17

Yeah, I guess I mean we have no choice, we have to get involved, man, because this is our business, this is our lot of people's livelihoods, man. So we have to do something. Doing nothing didn't work. Well, we tried, we were doing the wrong things in Arlington. Uh, we didn't have an inside person out there. They even did the lawsuit thing, which he said that doesn't this is not very fruitful. I even heard that um at one of the city council meetings, one of uh one of our people, you know, the the ones for Airbnb short-term rentals, told them, Hey, we we hear that you have like this huge budget to hire this most expensive law firm in the country to protect you. Blah, he's complaining to the city council, right? And city council is like, Well, we are we are you know given money and we have the right to protect ourselves, you know, said it real calmly. Pretty much they have a you know a blank check to write to the most expensive lawyer law firm in the country, and you're gonna go hire Joe Schmoe lawyer off the street to to try to defend this like kind of defender's spending a shitload of money too on a lawsuit, but he said no lawsuits ever won. Man, you gotta have an insider, man. You gotta go and bombs, man.

SPEAKER_03 1:31:29

I tell people that, bro. Like, that's how anything gets passed in this country, man. You gotta go grease some pockets, man. That's just simply how it works. Economics, man. That's what you you we've created the economics with the short-term rentals. Now we gotta go grease some pockets, man.

SPEAKER_02 1:31:43

That's it, man. Or or we're gonna get greased ourselves. Shit.

SPEAKER_03 1:31:46

Hell yeah. But the good thing about Dallas, though, they aren't gonna ban it outright. They they've already said that they aren't gonna ban it outright. It's just it's just gonna put some regulations on certain certain neighborhoods, you know. So uh, you know.

SPEAKER_02 1:32:01

Well, the scary one is if it's only a lodging places, like he said, only hotel zoned areas, like that's one of the options. That one's scary.

SPEAKER_03 1:32:09

Multifamily zoned.

SPEAKER_02 1:32:11

Is that what it was?

SPEAKER_03 1:32:12

Commercial commercial zoned. So therefore, when it's commercial zone, you can still get a little okay, you know, you can still get a little uh what's it creative and operate. It's just a few now. If they ban it in residential neighborhoods, that could hurt, that's gonna hurt people with houses.

SPEAKER_02 1:32:29

People are jumping ship already in Dallas, shit.

SPEAKER_03 1:32:31

Yeah, that's true.

SPEAKER_02 1:32:32

Um, anyways, well that was a great show, man. Um where can people find us?

SPEAKER_03 1:32:37

Find us IG at Live Let Thrive, TikTok at Live Let Thrive. Also, the masterclass is coming up August 20th. Make sure you're there, get your tickets. Also, make sure you're in these clubhouse rooms 7:30. Two people got 50 off to that masterclass just for being in the room. So make sure y'all hit us up there, follow the clubhouse IG, join that Facebook group. Uh, leave us a review on honest review on uh iTunes. Even if you don't like us, if you don't like us, we'll probably just read it out loud and laugh. Also, and uh hit that subscribe button.

SPEAKER_02 1:33:10

Yeah, and and and check out Share B, my buddy's uh badass uh rental company, and um and uh Argist rentals, you know, our just is the largest, arg e s t rentals hit us up, share BNB PBD living all yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:33:25

Hey, we gotta get you uh uh what's it called back there, man? An Argus rental sign, my guy.

SPEAKER_02 1:33:30

Oh, we do need one. I'm pumping my hat, man. Everybody's uh complimenting my hat, so I had to wear the hat today, man.

SPEAKER_03 1:33:36

Look, I advertise every show, man. I know, but yeah, man, thank y'all for continuing to listen to us, man. It's been a fun journey, and we're gonna keep pumping it out. Hopefully, we hit episode 300 by the end of the year, possibly. We'll see. So, man, this has been fun, man. We hit 300, dude. And we got some big stuff coming for y'all, so y'all continue to listen.

SPEAKER_02 1:33:55

We are out LLT out. Peace.

SPEAKER_03 1:33:58

Later.

SPEAKER_00 1:33:59

Thank you for tuning in to this week's episode of Live Let Thrive. Be sure to tune in next week for all the latest in the world of Airbnb and all that entails. Bye-bye.