Cold open

SPEAKER_00 0:00

Welcome to Live Let Thrive, a podcast about the Airbnb life, the share economy, and everything in between. Here are your hosts, Micah and Steve.

SPEAKER_01 0:11

Hello, hello, hello. And welcome back to another exciting episode of Live Let Dry.

SPEAKER_03 0:22

What's up, Micah Man?

SPEAKER_01 0:23

I'm chilling, Stevie Stacks. How you doing?

SPEAKER_03 0:26

Oh, doing good. It's getting cold in the DFW.

SPEAKER_01 0:29

Yeah, it was. It was definitely a cold front came through today. So uh getting ready for that uh that winter season over here, man.

SPEAKER_03 0:36

So the good thing is we will no longer have to worry about AC problems, we'll now worry about heater problems at all of our places.

SPEAKER_01 0:42

Yeah, guess real quick.

SPEAKER_03 0:46

Man, these utility bills are killing us, anyways. We have a special guest today on this episode 231 of your favorite Airbnb VRBO short-term, mid-term, long-term rental podcast in the world, Micah. Who we got? Ziana McIntyre. I nailed it. She told me before the show how to say her name. Who repeat guess? Micah says she's been on three times. I said two times, but you know, we'll we'll split the difference. Uh, who is Ziana McIntyre? Well, you probably heard it heard her on Bigger Pockets, and uh, I'll read a little bio. She went from fifty thousand dollars in debt to financially free within two years with Airbnb. Ziana McIntyre has been on Airbnb uh and Airbnb host since 2012. After 10 years of managing short-term rentals across the globe, she has transitioned to selling real estate to

Zeona McIntyre intro and the 30-Day Stay book

SPEAKER_03 1:43

investors looking to house hack or live for free. She is an avid real estate investor owning a double-digit portfolio of short and midterm rentals in the fall of 2022. She will release the book. 30, she already did release the book. This bio's old. What's going on? Uh 30 Days Stay. I have the book right here, y'all. 30 Days Stay. You gotta get this book. And as I trudge through this, okay, the letters got smaller all of a sudden. Uh, an investor's guide to mastering the midterm rental, co-authored with Sarah Weaver. She teaches listeners how to achieve financial freedom through real estate on her podcast, Invest2Fi. Co-hosted with Craig Kurlop. She has been featured on Bigger Pockets, Mr. Money Mustache, NPR, Business Insider, and more than 50 podcasts. Zayon Z own Ziana has been to 47 different countries. She spends half the year in Boulder, Colorado, and the other half traveling the world as an international pet sitter. Welcome to the show, Ziana.

SPEAKER_05 2:49

I love that you read the whole thing.

SPEAKER_03 2:52

I kept going, I kept scrolling. I was like, damn, how much is it?

SPEAKER_05 2:54

Oh damn, bro. Sorry. I just try to give you options. Like, I've been here a while. I got a lot of stuff to say.

SPEAKER_03 3:02

So, what everybody wants to know, um, how is pet sitting?

SPEAKER_04 3:06

Pet sitting's awesome. I mean, we're literally going to a pet sit on Saturday, and it's gonna be in this, like, we've been there maybe five times. Like, we go there for most of our Thanksgivings and Christmases. It's like an hour from here, and it's this crazy lodge on the edge of like a valley. You go in, and it's like this huge windows, and it's just like mountains. It's unbelievable. And we stay there for free. We're just watching some doggies, you know. Where's the so it's in Estes Park, Colorado?

SPEAKER_01 3:36

I knew you were gonna say Estes. I love Estes. I just went two years ago. I love Estes. The drive up scary, especially on some edibles, but yeah, I love Estes Park.

SPEAKER_05 3:45

Well, I usually skip that part, but that's good.

SPEAKER_01 3:49

The drive is kind of scary, but yeah, I love Estes Park, it's beautiful.

SPEAKER_05 3:53

Awesome, yeah. And you know, the book just came out yesterday, so you know that's not that old of a bio, okay? Just yesterday.

SPEAKER_03 4:03

Uh it's funny because I told I I was I was messaging, you know, past guests, future guests, present guests. I said, Hey, send me a book so I can put on my wall of honor over here. And then I and I sent uh Zaona a picture, Zayana a picture today of of her book on the wall of honor. I was so proud, you know, this thumb text. And then she's like, You gotta read the fucking book. And I was like, Oh, okay. I don't know, that's part of the deal. I don't read it. No, but I do I am gonna read this, I'm gonna freaking read it every night, like the Bible, and because 30 days stay.

Advertising midterm rentals on Airbnb and Furnished Finder

SPEAKER_03 4:33

Hey, we love midterm rentals here. Michael's been talking mentor rentals for years. He he's always saying, 'Fuck Airbnb,' and and so I'm into it big time heavy. And I wanna, yeah, we want to pick your brain today and get all the knowledge you know from you.

SPEAKER_01 4:47

To start it off, how how do you advertise your midterm rentals to get the midterm reservations?

SPEAKER_05 4:53

Well, I'm gonna piss you off right now because I use Airbnb still, bro.

SPEAKER_04 4:59

Um, but I also use uh you know, furnish finder, and now we're getting really into trying to like build relationships to do the contracts because if you can get direct contracts for doctors or insurance or government

Setting 30-day minimum stays and opening the calendar five weeks at a time

SPEAKER_04 5:14

contracts, they'll pay you as much as a short-term rental, sometimes more. So that's where it's at, but it takes a little legwork.

SPEAKER_01 5:22

Now, how do you set up your Airbnb listing to attract that midterm rental?

SPEAKER_04 5:26

Yeah, so I mean, I just put 30 days plus because some of my cities, we can't do anything else, right? So 30 days is like what's legal in town. And then the way that I set it up, so I'm really strategic about it, is like I only open it up about a month at a time. So if I if I got a tenant coming in, usually they say, Hey, I just want to go month to month. I don't know when I'm leaving yet. So then I just leave the calendar blocked. But as soon as they tell me, hey, I'm out in two weeks or in a month, I'll open just five weeks. And the reason I do that is because I don't want people to just have my calendar and book whenever and give me some awkward three-week gap that I can't fill anymore. You know what I mean? So I I make it that it's not instant book and I make it so that I can like move the dates around. No, not instant book. Isn't that crazy?

SPEAKER_01 6:18

How does your calendar like how is your occupancy? Because we we've talked about, hey, just just make our listing 30 days, but then some people we kind of get like, uh, what's the occupancy like doing that?

SPEAKER_04 6:29

No, I we're full. We are full. So literally we can have people come in the same day and leave, you know, like the same day someone leaves, but it's hard on our cleaner because sometimes people stay six months, like very often you get a nurse and then they want to extend, and their contracts are 13 weeks, so then they'll do the whole six months deal. Um, and so after six months, you don't know what you're walking into. It's like, does somebody move a broom around once or not? So it's hard to have a guest coming in a couple hours. So we try to give them a day in between, but yeah, it's I barely have like a couple days. It's it's never really empty.

unknown 7:06

Wow.

SPEAKER_03 7:06

Have you ever toy on that note? Have you ever toyed with like doing monthly or weekly cleanings for the guests?

SPEAKER_04 7:12

So what we do, so I'm really into auto messaging because I feel like that's less automation, it's less for us to do. So we've got like a series of messages, and I think it's like day three. We send them a message with our cleaners info and like the cleaner's wage, and you know, and just kind of say, like, we'll just leave this here if you want a cleaner, hint hint. But I don't want to pay for it, you know?

unknown 7:33

Right.

SPEAKER_04 7:33

So I'm not doing it now.

SPEAKER_01 7:35

What now another this is my other question? So, what area are your rentals in for it to be like you're

Markets across four states: St. Louis, Colorado, Florida, Washington

SPEAKER_01 7:41

steady getting like 30-day rentals here, here, and here? Because I don't know because I want to try it, but I'm like, oh man, I don't know if I'll be messing it up. So, what what areas that does this usually work in?

SPEAKER_04 7:51

So this is what I did wrong, but it's because I've been in this field for like 10 years, and so I didn't have this strategy before. So it was like I had investing ADD. It was like I would hear about a cool market, like, oh, I'm gonna go there. And so now I invest, I have like four states, and in some of the states, I'm in like three markets in that state. So it's a little messy. What I recommend for people now is pick a state and marry it or pick an area and marriage. So if you know, if you want to diversify maybe two areas, but stay in those areas. So I have medium term in St. Louis still, and then I've got Boulder, Colorado, Denver, Colorado, Colorado Springs, Colorado. Um, and yeah, I've got long-term rentals and short-term rentals in Florida, and then I've got a short-term rental that we do some midterm in um Washington State. So it's just like a little random. I know. She's random.

SPEAKER_03 8:47

Why are you against uh diversifying like that?

SPEAKER_04 8:50

Because now that we're trying to build the contract like relationships, you want to become the guy with like all the units in this one place. So then when they call you up, you're like, oh yeah, I've got 15 units, like I can help you out,

St. Louis hospital cluster and persistent cleaner struggles

SPEAKER_04 9:04

you know? And so for me to call them up and be like, I go one place, you know, that's not as cute. So now I'm like, okay, I'm just gonna I'm consolidating a little bit.

SPEAKER_01 9:13

I like that strategy. Now, now who's the most going to St. Louis for 30 days?

SPEAKER_04 9:18

Oh my god, St. Louis is the like busiest market of all of them. It's just my problem with St. Louis is that I can never so you'll you'll learn this if you invest in different markets or manage in different markets, is that some places you can find really good cleaners and reliable people and all that stuff. St. Louis, man, I've been in that market since 2015. I'm still struggling with cleaners, so I'm ready to go. I'm cutting my cutting my losses. So yeah, I had four places there and now I just down to one because I'm I'm slowly selling them off.

SPEAKER_01 9:51

Oh, you should have told me I would have bought them. I got boots on the ground in St. Louis.

SPEAKER_04 9:55

Oh, good. You want to give me some boots? I need a boot. No, I got I got the best handyman contractor in the world, but cleaners, man, they're killing me. So it just depends.

SPEAKER_01 10:09

So now a quick question on cleaners, just to go into that real quick. Yeah. What's your process for hiring them now?

SPEAKER_04 10:16

Um, I guess like, I mean, my assistant does most everything now. So it was her process, but basically, I try to get somebody who's vetted and referred by somebody, and then we we gotta make sure that they're available. And I need to make sure that they're doing deep cleans, and the pricing's not insane. I think right now you can probably find amazing cleaners, but they they're gonna kill you on the cost. So it just depends. But yeah, I think the people that I've got out there, they're either not available or they're just really difficult. And I think what's hard is when you're an out-of-state investor, you need that cleaner to be like cleaner plus, right? They need to be your boots on the ground, the eyes, they need to be able to like run to Target for some batteries just in case, you know, like a little extra, and I'll pay them for it. But I've got some people that just won't help, and that I don't like that. And it worked for me.

SPEAKER_03 11:12

Nice. Yeah, we got a cleaner here that she's actually putting together our the latest arbitrage house that we're doing that we want it to be heavy on the midterm.

SPEAKER_00 11:20

She's the right one, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 11:21

So she's the second, this is the well third place she put together for us. So yeah, so she just has a knack at design. So it's like you want to design a place, we'll pay you. And then she's doing it all, and of course, probably get a free cleaning out of it, you know. Because she's gonna show us the house all set up and pretty. And um, so yeah, it's definitely you need yeah, you need people like that that can do more, right? Like a like a baseball team, a three-tool guy, you know, a guy can hit and then catch and then you know run. You know, you you want people with more tools than just just one thing because you you're definitely gonna need to call on them one day.

SPEAKER_04 11:51

Yeah, and let me just tell Micah a little bit about St. Louis. The reason St. Louis works is because it has a hospital cluster, so you'll kind of see that certain markets have that where it's like they're just like hospital row where they got like five hospitals right in that area, and St. Louis has that. So not only do they have some big university hospitals, but they also have just like this cluster in uh central west end. Is that what it's called? I think so. Um, and yeah, they just bring so many nurses that even with four places that was constantly full, and people were like looking for more units. So it's a good market. I'm just I'm done. I've graduated.

SPEAKER_01 12:27

Are you now? Are you actively growing your portfolio right now?

SPEAKER_04 12:31

I am, but it depends on what day of the week you ask me that. Sometimes I get tired and I'm like, I'm done. You know what? What I've learned now is like when you have a lot of money coming in or whatever, you could just invest in syndications, right? Like life could just be easier and you could be fully hands-off and actually passive, but I'm here for the addiction.

$500k annual equity gain vs. arbitrage cash flow

SPEAKER_04 12:54

I love buying houses, you know, I can't stop. So that's the problem.

SPEAKER_01 12:59

So you only buy you don't arbitrage, right?

SPEAKER_04 13:02

I don't arbitrage. I started that way, but I, you know, even just COVID showed me that like I'm in like 500k each year just in equity. And I was like, I'm here for the equity. Forget about the arbitrage.

SPEAKER_05 13:17

But you know, if you guys want another job, you can keep arbitraging.

SPEAKER_01 13:23

I love that. You got 500k. And I tell people, man, that is unbeatable. That is unbeatable. Now, unbeatable. Are you buying your market your properties straight off the MLS? How are you picking them up off market? How are you picking them up?

SPEAKER_04 13:34

I yeah, I am. Like, I've I've bought only one thing off-market. People are like, oh, you gotta be cute to get a deal. I'm like, no, you gotta know how to make a deal because you can look at something and say, Oh, if I'm gonna make it a long-term rental, that's not gonna work. But if I do midterm, if I do short term, if I do some other crazy stuff, if I rent by the room, now almost anything can be a deal. So my problem is I find too many deals and I'm like, you need to stop buying things.

SPEAKER_03 14:02

So you mentioned something real quick. Rent by the room, do you do that?

SPEAKER_04 14:05

I don't, but I have, you know, and I think that's more that's like a great strategy when you're super young and you're excited about having roommates still. But I I'm kind of past that now. So yeah, rent by the room strategy is is basically having roommates. But what works well is that if you can get into a house with very little down, you know, and a lower interest rate because you're owner occupied, then you can just rent out all the rooms and live for free and get cash flow. And people maximize that by renting those rooms medium term or doing short term in those rooms. But I just don't want to live with a lot of people.

SPEAKER_03 14:42

No, I just I just figured like like if you bought a house that you buy hospital, you would think, oh, this would be a great, you know, rent by the room place, you know. Not that you would live in it.

SPEAKER_04 14:50

It could. It could, yeah. You know, I've heard mixed things about that. I've heard that it's actually like there's liability if you're putting people that don't know each other together. I don't know. I did that years ago and had no problem with it. So I think it just depends, but I find it to be too much hassle. And so I'm kind of in this place of like, I like medium term, I like short term. It is a little bit more work, but I still want to keep my work at a minimum. And so when I rent whole units, that feels a lot easier than trying to coordinate um all the check-in and out of individual rooms and the cleaning and stuff.

SPEAKER_01 15:29

Now you said uh you have to make a deal. Now you making a deal because you're using like midterm and short-term rentals to make the deal. Are you going to markets that are already regulated?

SPEAKER_04 15:40

Um, well, medium term, there's not really a regulation. Like over 30 days is basically what you see, unless you're in certain HOAs where they're like, oh, it has to be three months or six months. So I avoid those. But basically, once it's 30 days, you're kind of like a long-term rental. So that's great. I think for short-term rental, I'm just doing a little bit less of it now, but basically, hmm, I mostly go to markets that don't have regulations for those. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 16:11

Has that came back to bite you at any point?

SPEAKER_04 16:14

Not yet. Well, I mean, I guess St. Louis, when I started back way back in the day there, they didn't really have their stuff together to have regulations. And so they slowly did add them, but they still don't enforce it. So, you know, what I do is I do medium term most of the time. But if there's like a couple day gap, I might just throw it, throw it short term and fill those couple days and keep going. Nobody's saying anything.

SPEAKER_03 16:40

Your interview uh bigger pockets was cool because

Bigger Pockets appearances and Rob's midterm interest

SPEAKER_03 16:43

this is your third time on bigger pockets, right?

SPEAKER_02 16:45

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_03 16:45

Yeah, yeah, that's awesome. So you've seen other iterations of the bigger pockets team, you know, the guys in here. You've seen all three different ones, right?

SPEAKER_04 16:54

Well, yeah, I mean, the first one I did had Mindy on there, so it wasn't um wasn't with Josh, but then I did like episode 300, which was kind of like a recapping bigger episode, and so Josh came for that one. And then this last one, it's been it was Dave and Rob.

SPEAKER_03 17:11

Yeah, Rob, yeah, yeah, that's cool. It even piqued his interest in the midterm because he's mostly short-term, right?

SPEAKER_04 17:18

He's got one, he's got one midterm. Everybody's kind of sneaking into the space.

SPEAKER_03 17:22

I know what's up with that. Yeah, they're gonna ruin it like they did short-term rentals. Um, anyways, so so that's that's what I was the one thing, you know, because I like I said, they're not really into it too big like you are, but the one thing I was like they'd impress you on is is how to fill those gaps, you know. You mentioned it briefly, but I want to know the the art of filling those gaps because those gaps can they can hurt, man.

SPEAKER_04 17:45

Yeah, well, so like I had said, I only open the calendar about five weeks, and in my booking and or in my ad, you know, people don't really read it, but I put it in there and say, hey, we're open month to month, but I'm just opening my calendar a little bit. So I'm hoping that someone's just searching for the beginning of their stay and not searching for like three or six months, which I think people know better than to do that because they're not going to find that much availability. So if they find my place for that like month, then we can talk. So what I've found with people that are doing longer stays is they're usually driving out and so they're flexible. If you tell them, hey, you know, I'm actually available this day, would you want to come a day early and like check out the city or whatever, you know, sometimes they'll work with you. And I've even had people stay in a hotel for a couple of days so that they could stay in my place. And they were just like filling in that gap that I wasn't available because they just want to stay in my place. So if you have a really nice product, you know, if you're coming into it like a short-term rental operator and making it cool, people will look for you and make an effort to be in your place.

SPEAKER_03 18:52

And then they'll try to, I mean, you want them to end their lease. You don't want them to end their lease on the 15th or something like that. How do you encourage them to like end it on either the first or the 30th or what do you do with that?

SPEAKER_04 19:02

Oh no, I've got people ending on the eighth and the 22nd and the fourth. Yeah, you just do whatever. It doesn't matter. People move whenever in this space.

SPEAKER_03 19:12

Okay. Yeah, that's what I was thinking thinking if there's any creative ways like to fill the gaps or to get people to pay for the gaps. Hey, you listen, I know you're coming on the eighth. It's we rent only by the month. I'll give you a discount on that eight-day gap or something like that. I don't know, just to close it a little. You don't do anything like that.

SPEAKER_04 19:26

Yeah, but I really, rarely find people that are like, I'm coming on the 31st or the first. Like it just they don't look at it like that, it's just not the same. Yeah, okay.

SPEAKER_03 19:37

Yeah, that was my biggest question after watching the show. It was it was a good show. Yeah, you dropped some gems on there.

SPEAKER_02 19:43

Thanks.

SPEAKER_01 19:44

One thing I I noticed you you were primarily, you said you are primarily on Airbnb, and I know you said you're trying to get into government contracts, things of that nature. I'm also trying to get into that. How what are what are some things are you doing anything to grow your business's brand?

SPEAKER_04 19:58

No, I don't, I don't know. I actually like don't care about that part. I mean, I have my own brand, you right? So I've got like a website. So if we need to show them like, oh, I'm legit and I'm not just like some random person from the internet, then

Proactive lead outreach on Furnished Finder, not passive booking

SPEAKER_04 20:13

like I have something to send them to. So that feels fine, but yeah, I I'm not really in the direct booking space in that way. Like, I don't want them to book on my website. I still want us to intervene and be able to like negotiate and stuff like that. So when people do their own website, it's just a little bit too um random for me. I used to have that set up, I don't like it.

SPEAKER_01 20:38

Gotcha, gotcha. Oh, in your case, you are the brand. That's what I love about yeah, yeah, that's that's pretty cool. I love that.

SPEAKER_03 20:47

So so what percentage of your bookings comes from Furnish Finder?

SPEAKER_04 20:51

Well, that's interesting. I think it depends on the market. So um, in Boulder, we're like much more tech heavy. So I actually don't have as many nurses that come through here. And so we get a lot of people for like we have like a Google campus, and we've got scientists that come in for the different like centers that we have here, research centers and people for the university and whatever. So, yeah, a lot of it comes through Airbnb for us there. But then something like St. Louis is like all furnish finder. Uh, so it really just depends on what your area is.

SPEAKER_03 21:23

Okay. That being said, do you have any like furniture finder hacks, how to use the site better to to attract guests and stuff like that? Or uh yeah, just just any hacks, yes.

SPEAKER_04 21:33

I feel like everybody uses furnish finder furnish finder wrong. Like I didn't know that. And so I was like, oh my God, everyone's not doing it right. Um, but basically, people are are planning for it to be like Airbnb. They're like waiting for a booking to come in, and like that's not how it works. People can tell you, hey, I'm interested in your property, but for the most part, you get a list of um you were distracting me with your cute child. Hi, child. Sorry about that.

SPEAKER_03 22:01

Abby just made an appearance. Poor thing.

SPEAKER_04 22:04

Yeah. So you get a list of matched leads, is what they call it, and then unmatched leads. And they might unmatch because it's like not the right price point, or maybe they want one bedroom when you have two bedrooms or whatever. So what we do is we have a template and we shoot it to everyone. Matched, unmatched, we're we're reaching out to people. So you have to be proactive in that sense. Now, if you want to go a step further, if you're trying to go after contracts like Micah is, I know he's taking notes. Um, if you're gonna go after contracts, you actually want, and you can have a VA or an assistant do this, but you want to call each of these people and you want to find out, hey, who's your recruiter? What agency is placing you and try to get back to that person. Because if you can get back to that person, they're gonna be placing more people, you know, and so then you can get a direct connection there.

SPEAKER_01 22:57

Now, okay. What's now you said something? You said template. What's your template?

SPEAKER_04 23:03

Yeah, I can send it to you, and I don't know how you could get it to other people, but they can DM me for it. But basically, what's important in it, it's just like an easy, you know, hey, I found you and my tenant leads, and I wanted to see if our places would work for you. So here's one hack is that if you've got four places in one town, you just have one furniture finder listing. You don't need to have all four. And the reason is because they're sending you all the tenants, right? So then you take that and you put it in your template, and your template has your four Airbnb listings. And the reason they don't need to book on Airbnb, but when people get that, even if they have already found a place to stay, they're gonna click on the listings because people love those links and they're curious and they want to look at pictures. And you need that for your SEO. It helps. And so even if that person doesn't book you, now you might get booked on Airbnb because you had all these people clicking your link. You're showing up higher and you're more likely to get booked. So that's the important part. And then in there we just say the couple of things like deposits a thousand dollars, cleaning fees, X amount. You know, we don't accept pets, or if you do, you know, and it's just like little bullet points. So that's it's pretty simple. Oh, and I'm a real estate agent. So I say, hey, if you're moving to the area, let me buy you like you can be our client. And I've gotten a lot of clients that way, so it's dope.

SPEAKER_03 24:28

Wow, love that. That is awesome. So you mentioned real quick, you mentioned, I mean, you you dropped some some awesome knowledge right there, but you mentioned pets. And so do you do do I know it's very lucrative, but do you uh allow pets at all your places then no?

SPEAKER_04 24:42

I don't like pets. I mean, I love pets, like as someone who does pet sitting, I'm like, ooh, I love pets, but I don't trust people with their pets, you know. And actually, of all my units, I have one guy right now who's a divorcee and he's got a hypoallergenic dog with like they don't shed, you know, they're the little curly hairs. So I was like, okay, you can have your dog. Plus, you're going through a divorce, you need that emotional support, you know? So he's okay, but for the most part, no, because they shed it, like messes up your couch, and then especially with traveling uh nurses, they're at the the hospital like 12 hours a day. That animal is freaking out, and they are messing up your shit.

SPEAKER_03 25:29

That is a good point. I had I had that that happened at one of the places we had a travel nurse there, and so her dog was just freaking out all day, and then the the hoa, the lady that that ran the HOA is next door, you know, sending a bunch of emails and texts, and everybody's freaking. I'm like, holy crap, I've I didn't even think about that. They're gone all day at work, and so this thing, if it freaks out, it just goes crazy all day.

SPEAKER_04 25:50

Yeah, yeah. So I yeah, I the I've not had any problems with traveling nurses except for once with pets, so cut it out. But you know, a lot of people like to keep it because they think that it brings more tenants in, and so if you feel like you're not getting enough, yeah, do it, but then have a pet fee and a pet deposit, like you can do whatever you want.

SPEAKER_03 26:13

Pet rent, baby.

SPEAKER_04 26:15

That's right. A hundred bucks, they'll do it.

SPEAKER_03 26:17

Hell yeah, they'll pay that, man. So so you wrote a book? It's like we go back to the book. How the hell do you get a book on bigger pockets? That's like a huge deal, man.

SPEAKER_04 26:29

Thank you. Um, it's so weird because it was Bigger Pockets Conference 2021, and I was like, I want to write a book for Bigger Pockets, but I have no idea what I'm gonna write. And I was like, they've already done all the books, it's done. I don't know what else they haven't written about. And then I got the idea and I was like, man, medium term, is that like big enough? Like, will anybody really read this? You know, but I'll I'll pitch it. Let me just see. But you know, last year was so different than this year, and so when we were pitching it to them, they were very much like, well, you know, we did a lot of market research, like there's nobody searching for these terms. It's like the keywords are not coming up high, but we believe that it could be something, and it now is crazy, pants. So I'm so glad that we did it. But yeah, at the time I had no idea if it was gonna work.

SPEAKER_03 27:21

That is cool. So, how do you sit down and write a book?

SPEAKER_04 27:25

Um, you just time block it. It is, it's um, you know, I think it's like a spiritual personal growth like experience to write a book because when you're sitting down there, like some days you're flowing and it's great, and then other days, like all your demons are there with you, you know, they're like nobody's gonna write or read this. Like, who do you think you are? It's not very good. Your writing sucks, like, and you're still there and you're doing it, so you're just like trudging through the mud, and I think it's a cool growing experience to do that.

SPEAKER_03 28:02

Just put in the reps, right? So, okay. So you do background checks and credit checks on all your clients, all your guests.

SPEAKER_05 28:09

Yeah, where did that come from?

SPEAKER_03 28:10

I don't know. I don't know. Terrible transitioner. I didn't sorry, sorry, these are my questions, these are from the book because I haven't read it yet. I will read it. Can you do it? Can you read it for me and then like and record it and then I can play it in my earphones?

SPEAKER_05 28:24

Yeah, it's called Audible, bro. Just play it there.

SPEAKER_03 28:32

Oh, we gotta cut that out of the show. We gotta we gotta play that. I mean, I mean, I mean, bro. Damn, put me in my place. I want to hear you read it. I don't want to hear some stranger reading.

SPEAKER_05 28:45

I know. Okay, so we had we had a real fight with Bigger Pockets about that. I we had to audition and they were like for your own book, for your own book, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 28:55

It's because I guess there's professionals that they know how to do the recording without making too many sounds. You like make mouth sounds and you swallow and all this stuff that has to be edited out.

SPEAKER_03 29:05

Do you do the in the book?

SPEAKER_04 29:07

Yeah, it was a mouth breathing breathing that they were just like, not you. But I really think like people connect with the author, especially because in the book we do a lot of like personal stories and case studies, and I'm like, that is so much more fun when it's you. So I think it's a big mess.

SPEAKER_01 29:26

It is better to read a book when you know the author, because now when I read your book, because I'm gonna get your book, I can do it. Like I read Julie George's book and I read uh Mark Simpson's book when I'm reading Julie's book. She'll like at the beginning part, she's telling a story, but I'm reading it in her voice, so it's really cool.

SPEAKER_02 29:43

Oh, that's a good skill.

SPEAKER_03 29:46

And so then I got captured by a kangaroo. Yeah, that's how she reads that's how she read her book. I don't even know if that's Australian. Shrimp on a ballby that's a whole book. That's all it is.

SPEAKER_01 29:56

So yeah, it is cool knowing an author because yeah, now I can read your book and I can read it in your voice.

SPEAKER_03 30:02

You know, it is funny that you did say about you know getting a professional book reader, I guess that's what they're called. I don't know. Uh, someone to read the books. Uh, because I've I mean, I've heard I've I've heard some great auto audible, you know, um readers, you know, and I'm like, wow, this this book is really interesting. It tells a story, you know what I'm saying? And then I heard a book where the owner there, the the author read his own book, and it was a great book, good to great. I love that book, but it just like it seemed like he was

Background checks, work contracts, and tenant screening via Avail

SPEAKER_03 30:28

so passionate about his own material and it is like a little too much, you know. You could have had a professional read it. I don't know, it was weird. I know, but it's his own stuff, so he really puts emphasis on the words that he meant to have emphasis and stuff like that. So he kind of yeah, I don't know.

SPEAKER_04 30:42

I actually like it better when I know it's the author reading it. That's what I'll go for. Otherwise, I'll just read it myself because I think they sound robotic sometimes, and I'm like, I can't get down with that. I like I can't follow this, boring. So I don't know, get the audible, let me know what you think.

SPEAKER_03 31:01

Oh lord, so many questions for you.

SPEAKER_05 31:03

Um, yeah, well, you can go back to that question that was just awkwardly transitioned. I'm happy to answer it now.

SPEAKER_03 31:10

I just I can't even read my own handwriting, Zayona, Zayana, Zayana. Sorry. Um, I was just talking about screening and doing background checks. You do that for every single guest that comes through.

SPEAKER_04 31:21

Well, so um, one thing to know is that like traveling nurses and like medical professionals, they're highly background checked because they're not trying to bring in any like criminals or crazies into their hospital, you know, like that's liability for them. So if I can get proof that they have like a work contract, then I don't need to background check them. I feel good about that. And then on Airbnb, I'm not background checking, so it's only when it's somebody from Furnish Finder that's like from something else. So sometimes people on Furnish Finder are like students or they're doing a renovation in their home or something like that, and they need they need a place for a little while.

SPEAKER_03 31:59

Um I do have this question. Oh, go ahead, Steve. I'll just say who do you use for your screenings?

SPEAKER_04 32:04

Um, well, we have everything on a veil now, so I think a veil does screening. Uh honestly, my assistant's doing it all. We used to do apartments.com and we moved to a veil, and it's all free. Okay. So well, the screenings we make the tenants pay for. And I think it's probably 30, 40 bucks, right?

SPEAKER_03 32:23

Mm-hmm. What were you gonna say, Micah?

SPEAKER_01 32:25

Man, I've completely lost my it'll come back. It'll come back.

SPEAKER_03 32:30

All right, all right. So where you okay, you list on, of course, Furnace Finder, and he talks about trying to get the direct contracts. Is there anywhere else other people might not have heard of? I mean, uh Facebook Marketplace, do you list on there? Do you list on Craigslist?

SPEAKER_04 32:41

Well, I mean, so yes, that works, right? But like the further away on Facebook. Yes, that's the thing. Is like you get on Craigslist and you get on Facebook Marketplace, it's a little bit crazy. What other people do is they'll post there's like tons of travel nurse um like groups on Facebook, and you can get in there, but I find it to be a heavy lift. I'm like, I don't want to get in there and post, and then it gets buried, and then you gotta find I don't know, too much work. So I try to go with the ease.

SPEAKER_03 33:10

I noticed that about you just like the easy way, you know? Yeah, you're still making money. What's up with that? Why make it hard, right?

SPEAKER_01 33:16

This is what I was gonna ask you because you said you do the midterm stays on Airbnb. So you you let people book for 30 plus days on Airbnb?

SPEAKER_02 33:25

Yep, right.

SPEAKER_01 33:26

Okay, so have you ran into the issue where hey, it's like 30 plus days, and you know Airbnb only sends you a chunk of what they're supposed to pay out. Have you ran into the issue where the guest doesn't pay the remainder? And how you haven't okay?

SPEAKER_04 33:40

No, because Airbnb makes them pay up front, so they have to pay the first 30 days up front and then they make them pay the next 30 days up front, but it's a little bit ahead of when you get paid, and so they're not staying, there's no like extra staying if they haven't paid.

SPEAKER_05 33:55

I always get the email, like they have so like if they haven't paid, it's just wherever your like shisty ass places are, man.

SPEAKER_01 34:06

This is shisty ass Airbnb. They don't they don't pay up front.

SPEAKER_04 34:12

Yeah, interesting. I thought they did.

SPEAKER_01 34:14

Yeah, you can swipe a card for 60 days and they'll only take 30 days out, so then they have to keep that card on file. But if that card goes bad, Airbnb will send you a message and say, Hey, this person didn't pay the rest of the stay, so you haven't yeah, and so you gotta let them out.

SPEAKER_04 34:30

Is that what they're saying?

SPEAKER_01 34:31

Like cut them loose. I was wondering how have you ran into that issue and have you you haven't ran into it? Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 34:37

No, I haven't. Um, I have had ones where it's like somebody books and then like within the first 15 minutes, they're like, Oh, there's an issue with the payment, but we usually resolve it, it's like way before they actually get it.

SPEAKER_01 34:49

Yeah, this is they're already booked.

SPEAKER_04 34:52

Yeah, that's that's interesting. That's sketchy, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 34:55

Zayana gets her money, yo.

SPEAKER_04 34:57

Yeah, that's right. Well, and those the contracts, when you do those, they pay the whole thing up front, which is kind of wild. They're just like, here's a check for twenty thousand dollars. You're like, Okay, yeah, don't spend it all in one place.

SPEAKER_05 35:10

Like, I'm dangerous with that kind of money. I'm gonna go get another property.

SPEAKER_01 35:14

I know that's that happened to me one time out down in Houston. This company out in Rosenberg, Texas, or something. There's like, oh, we'll just send you a check. And I'm like, you know, I'm gonna need it before it because it got kind of sketchy. And they actually mailed me a check. I was like, Man, it's a ten thousand dollar check.

SPEAKER_04 35:29

I was like, damn, okay, let's make sure it caches, but okay.

SPEAKER_01 35:34

I was like, cool, you're good to go. Here's the information. So, yeah, next day making it rain. Yeah, contracts are the best.

SPEAKER_03 35:40

So, what what do um what do travel nurses like, corporate travelers like? How do you set up a house uh specifically for them?

SPEAKER_04 35:49

Yeah, so blackout blinds are important because you'll find that a lot of them are night workers, so they have to sleep during the day. So, whatever you can do to make that easier, if you've got like a loud place, like you're a little more urban, you might want to have a sound machine in there. It's cheap stuff just that you can have. I've been debating if it makes sense to have like um, you know, like stand-up desks and kind of like monitors in certain properties, like the ones here in Boulder that are a little more like uh tech. So I haven't done it. I try to make every place have a desk so somebody could work and they're not just working at like the dining table, but I haven't like really got it all like tricked out. So I might at a certain point, but they still rent, so I'm not sure. It ain't broke, don't fix like yeah, if it ain't broke, don't fix it.

SPEAKER_03 36:35

It sounds like you don't overthink things too much.

SPEAKER_04 36:38

No, I think what's really important for us is we make our places super cute. So I spend a little more and I've got somebody who helps me, and we make them really stylish so that like the pictures stand out and they're fun and we get professional photos, and that's important to me. I've been thinking about starting to put like um what are those called, like murals in my property so that they stand out a lot, you know, just kind of like short-term rentals, just to make them fun. Because I think in the past, the there was just like no places to stay, and people are staying in dark basements and like ugly granny rooms and stuff, and so I just like want to give them something nice.

Blackout blinds for night-shift nurses and stylish design

SPEAKER_03 37:17

That was my old company, dark basements and and and granny rooms. That was mine exactly. That's how I started. So well, oh yeah.

SPEAKER_04 37:25

I mean, when I started, I was like, I was a college student, so my show was messed up. It was it was like really minimalist and just like funky mismatch from Craigslist. I mean, I've come a long way.

SPEAKER_03 37:40

I think Micah told it because you said you want to make you know, maybe put a mural and make it look, you know, like really cool. But my I think Micah, you said it one time, you go don't make don't go too crazy with the style if it's for longer, you know, mid to long term, and then but if it's a short-term rental, yeah, make the eye-catching style because they're gonna have to live with that every day after every day. I don't know, I don't know if you told me that, Micah, but someone told me that.

SPEAKER_01 38:01

Yeah, yeah, I'm not sure on that one, but yeah, it's yeah. I think nowadays with how Airbnb's algorithm is, you definitely want to make something that stands out nowadays. Um, because man, it's just they're always changing something too. So, you know, you gotta always try to keep up with that algorithm. But yeah, I'm not, I don't know, I might have said that.

SPEAKER_03 38:20

Maybe, maybe, yeah, maybe Zayana on a on a cloud with the harp, you know, playing the harp and a smile.

unknown 38:27

I know.

SPEAKER_05 38:27

I was making a joke with a friend the other day. I was like, I should have these like artsy shots of myself in each one of my apartments. Nobody has to know it's me, right? It's just like it looks like artsy, and then uh one day I come to like fix something and they're like, Oh, that's you. That's awkward.

SPEAKER_01 38:45

I know you everyone everyone's kind of changed their strategy when they first started. You know, you gotta had a ghost.

SPEAKER_02 38:53

Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 38:53

I remember when Steve first started, he wanted me over to start, and uh he didn't even he had his beds on the floor, he didn't even have bed frames. I was like, Steve, you gotta have it.

SPEAKER_05 39:04

All right, that's that's a whole new level. I know.

SPEAKER_04 39:07

I see. I'm like, you know, I'm helping people with their places often, and they send it to me, and I'm like, okay, I see what your problem is. You know, it's like real obvious.

SPEAKER_05 39:16

Here we go.

SPEAKER_01 39:17

So you can you need bed frames? I'm like, Yeah, man, you don't have to be beds on the breadfame.

SPEAKER_03 39:25

You put the box spring, and then that's what the bed frame is, right? The box spring. I guess that was that was back when when they were the home decor was doing this bed on the floor thing. Yeah, but it looks cute in the magazines, right? Puts these like these things in the bottom of the page. But man, you know, getting up from the bed is hard because you gotta roll off the bed and and you know, and get on your knees and roll in. I don't know, it's getting off the rails now. Sorry, sorry. Um learning hey, but but don't do we always say it on the show, don't do canopy beds because those you know they shake those things loose, you know what I'm saying?

SPEAKER_04 40:02

Hmm, I've never had one of those.

SPEAKER_03 40:04

Um don't don't do it, don't do it, pretty, but yeah, all those screws be popping out and everything, yeah.

SPEAKER_05 40:11

A lot for me to process right now.

SPEAKER_03 40:15

Great, then we don't have a key for the handcuffs, and what do you do? What do you do, Z?

SPEAKER_04 40:19

Yeah, that's true.

SPEAKER_03 40:22

So Burning Man, you still go to Burning Man every year?

SPEAKER_04 40:25

I do, yeah. We went this year, it was my fifth year in a row. Well, I mean, Burning Man had a couple years off, so fifth year that you could go to Burning Man.

SPEAKER_03 40:34

Did you go to the one where the the dude ran into the fire? I did. Did you see it happen?

SPEAKER_04 40:40

I didn't see it happen. I'm glad. I had some friends who saw it happen. It seemed pretty scarring. Usually someone dies at Burning Man every year because it's a lot of people, it's like 80,000 people, you know, so it's just like a city. Sometimes things just happen. But I think this last year nobody died. Yeah, that one's like a little more deliberate when you actually run into the fire. It's that's rough.

SPEAKER_03 41:04

Yeah, he took it literal, didn't he? Um, so do you so low season? How do you handle low slow? Is there a slow season in this kind of industry, this midterm rental industry?

SPEAKER_04 41:13

Yeah, I'd say it's still seasonal, right? So, what changes for us is just basically the pricing. So that's what I love too, is that if you're not using Airbnb and you're just on Furnish Finder, the mistake I see a lot of people do is they set a price for the year and they're like, Oh, I'm 2,500 all year. And you're like, Okay, but you're missing out. So the reason I also use Airbnb is because you can use pricing software with it. And so that was the way that I learned, oh, this is still seasonal because I have a property where it's normally like $2,500 for a one bedroom. And then in June, I was getting like $3,000, $3,500, and then in July I got like $4,000. I was like, okay, that's awesome. But yeah, there there are times where you have higher demand than other times, but it only takes one. No, that's what I like to remember.

SPEAKER_01 42:03

What pricing software are you using?

SPEAKER_04 42:06

I am still at beyond pricing, but I do not recommend it. I think people need to do price labs. They have me stuck in a contract, so that's what is happening.

SPEAKER_01 42:16

Oh, they're you're stuck in oh, okay. I gotcha, gotcha, gotcha.

SPEAKER_04 42:20

Mm-hmm. I'm not happy about it.

SPEAKER_01 42:22

I still use I use beyond pricing and price labs, but I like I like use both.

Price Labs vs. Beyond Pricing and seasonal rate swings to $4,000

SPEAKER_04 42:27

Why both?

SPEAKER_01 42:28

Well, for different so I have my my time shares are all beyond pricing, and then my properties that I own and arbitrage are all price labs.

SPEAKER_04 42:36

Amazing, you're still doing the time shares. I love that that worked out. I I thought I might pivot that way and I just couldn't figure it out. So great job.

SPEAKER_01 42:44

Yeah, I'm gonna have to change some things because they suspended all 500 of my listings yesterday, a couple days ago. So uh yeah, I'm gonna have to change up some stuff.

SPEAKER_02 42:54

Yikes, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 42:56

So, how was it being on bigger pockets? Did I already ask you that? Was it no?

SPEAKER_02 43:00

You didn't.

SPEAKER_03 43:01

Was it is it nerve-wracking? You seem pretty even killed personally.

SPEAKER_04 43:03

It is so that's interesting. Like, I'm actually afraid of public speaking, and so when I first got started doing podcasts, I was nervous, and now I have a podcast, and for the most part, I'm not nervous. But when I had to do this last bigger pockets, I just knew like how much it meant, just because there's so many people that watch it. I feel like I wasn't as good because it wasn't as like calm. So, yes, still nervous. Thank you. I appreciate that.

SPEAKER_03 43:31

No, you always are good on podcasts.

SPEAKER_04 43:33

Thanks, guys.

SPEAKER_03 43:34

Just on podcasts.

SPEAKER_04 43:36

I know. Well, so in person, it's even scarier, and that's something I'm trying to get better at is like just speaking a lot.

SPEAKER_03 43:44

Oh man, I'm coming a long way, but man, this is on the mic, just get on the mic and just go, huh, like a lot, a lot.

SPEAKER_01 43:53

You're gonna join Tustmasters?

SPEAKER_04 43:55

I know. I've I've like gone and like flirted with the idea, you know, I've gone to Like a session or two, but I should go to Toastmasters.

SPEAKER_01 44:03

I know my wife doesn't. She likes really broke out doing it, like killing it. So yeah, it definitely I love it.

SPEAKER_04 44:09

It works. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 44:11

One thing you mentioned in your book, I I you know roused. Well, I read the back cover. Um, is is is tax is um no tax, you don't get hit with the taxes when you do midterm rentals. Explain that for us, please.

SPEAKER_04 44:24

Okay, so there is usually it's all different by area, and so the only place that this is not true, I've learned this since writing the book, is that Florida, if it's under

No hotel tax after 30 days except Florida under six months

SPEAKER_04 44:34

six months, they consider it a short-term rental. And that's the only state that I've heard of that does that. So they charge a state tax, and then depending on the county, they may also charge a county tax. And I hate that. So I have I have five units in central Florida, and I really want to make a midterm rental that I'm just like, I don't want to pay taxes. So I'm not sure if I'm gonna do it. Um, but basically there's always like a tax for um shorter stays, is it's kind of like a hotel tax, essentially. So Airbnb in a lot of places has gotten really good at that they collect it and they remit it for you. You don't really have to deal with it. But um, yeah, so once it's 30 days, you don't have to pay that tax. So even if you're in that same town that they would be collecting tax for under 30 days, it's just depending on how how long the stay is. And so they charge the guest that tax, but it takes it out of what you could be otherwise charging the guest. That makes sense.

SPEAKER_03 45:31

That makes perfect sense. That's that's a big reason to try to transition to midterm rentals because they do get you because man, some cities is like nine percent, and then the state wants another six percent. I'm like, yeah, oh. So if you just yeah, if you just did a midterm rental, you'd probably be making more money than doing a short-term rental in some cases.

SPEAKER_04 45:47

Well, and then you might also have to have a short-term rental permit, which costs money, right? And so, as a long-term rental, often it's like Boulder, for example, the short-term rental permit is like two years or one year or something, and then in their long-term, it's like four years, like they don't even care about you, you know? Just give us give us their permit and know that you're legal, and then that's it. A lot of places don't even have anything for a long-term rental, so that is kind of that other reason why I'm leaving leaving short St. Louis is like they just have a lot of rules, and I don't like that. They like technically want to know every time you turn over a tenant, and that that's too often for me. So I just don't tell them, you know, they're just things that I don't want to deal with. So I was like, I want to be as in the right as I can, and so I try to move to markets where they just don't ask a lot of questions.

SPEAKER_01 46:35

What's the market you're looking at right now?

SPEAKER_04 46:38

Um, I'm really bullish on Omaha.

SPEAKER_01 46:41

Hmm.

SPEAKER_04 46:42

Yeah. Omaha has one of the top nine hospitals for traveling nurses, and they have no rental restrictions. So you can do short-term, medium term. And I like that because I like that hybrid model of like really doing a bunch of short term in the high season and just like getting that money. And then in the slower season, just fill in with the medium term because otherwise you'd just be booking weekends and you're not even really covering your bases. So I like the mix.

SPEAKER_01 47:11

That's a new one. Omaha, never heard about that one.

SPEAKER_05 47:14

Always out in the bushes, you know, those are the good ones where you can still get a quad for like what four or 500k. It's amazing, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 47:25

Oh, snap. So it does it doesn't scare you at all to go into a market that has zero regulations as opposed to one that already has something in place, you know what I'm saying? So, in case, like all of a sudden, you know, people follow you to Omaha, and then hey, all the people get up and you're like, ah, let's let's Kansas ban Airbnb or whatever, you don't you don't get scared about that?

SPEAKER_04 47:43

Yeah, because I'm not really I don't like tie my hitch to short-term rental anymore. If I was saying, like, ooh, I can only do short-term rental and this deal will not work, then I would be worried. But in Omaha, the numbers are so good that you can almost just buy long term. I mean, I think you can. If you find the right deal, like you can still make a cash flow long term. So if you're doing short-term and midterm, it's like crazy, it's bananas. So I think it's fine.

SPEAKER_01 48:12

I love that strategy, and that's a strategy I I'm bullish on too. Like, hey, make sure it works long term. If your long term, everything else is just that's just icing on the cake because sure that's where it is. I'm I'm fully agree with that strategy.

SPEAKER_03 48:25

Oh, yeah. I wonder what month um the buff that Warren Buffett has the the annual stockholders meeting. I heard it's like huge that people like all over the world go to that thing.

SPEAKER_04 48:34

There you go. That's some of your renters. I know when is that? I feel like it's November, but I could be so wrong.

Omaha: top-nine hospital for nurses, zero rental restrictions

SPEAKER_04 48:41

I I remember having a bunch of friends that wanted to go. I haven't been yet.

SPEAKER_03 48:45

You own stock in Buffett's company?

SPEAKER_04 48:47

I mean, probably. I'm at like BTSAX, don't they have like the entire stock market? So maybe.

SPEAKER_03 48:54

Love BTSX.

SPEAKER_01 48:56

Let's go.

SPEAKER_04 48:57

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 48:58

Okay. So what makes a okay, so you're out, you're always shopping because you're addicted to shopping for houses, right? Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 49:03

So what what makes and I'm a realtor, so that's like it feeds the addiction.

SPEAKER_03 49:07

Oh bad, bad moves, straight to the vein right there. Um so what um what is the criteria you look for? That's gonna something that's gonna make a good or great midterm rental.

SPEAKER_04 49:18

Yeah, so my favorites now are two to four

One-bedroom condos with shared utilities and low capex

SPEAKER_04 49:21

unit. Like I like small multifamily, and I like it because you're paying the utilities. So if you can have like one lawn and one roof and all that, it just makes it a little bit easier. Um, the other thing that I do because I'm in different markets, like in Colorado, a multi-unit is like two million dollars. You know, it's like uh I'm not there yet. I'm not buying those. So what I do here is I pick up condos. So condos are one of those things that people avoid as real estate investors, especially the one bedroom condo. So, one bedroom condo, a lot of people won't buy that because if they have enough money to buy, they want a two-bedroom so they can have like an office or a guest room, you know? So the one bedrooms are often overlooked, and I feel like you can really get good deals on them. So I like a one-bedroom condo, and I like the ones that have shared utilities. So they don't have their own furnace or water heater, it's like part of the building. So then that shit doesn't break and cost you a lot of money. And then I like the ones even that don't have their own washer and dryer, and a lot of people avoid those too, but a medium-term renter doesn't care. They they'll have a washer and dryer in the building, not like you know, down the street. But it's uh the only things that can break are my kitchen appliances. So my like overhead and maintenance is like so low.

SPEAKER_03 50:39

Wow, that's crazy. Yeah, I thought they all needed washers and dryers.

SPEAKER_04 50:43

I was assuming I mean they have access to one, it's just like down the hall. It's not mine. I'm not, I don't have to deal with it. Yeah, what I like about condos though is like if you have that kind of setup, I don't I don't estimate for capex. What I do is I just have my maintenance, which is like five percent, and capex would usually be another five percent. But I'm saying that hey, my HOA fee is the capex because that's covering all those shared things, so it's nice, makes it a little easier.

SPEAKER_03 51:14

You just made me so happy, Zayana, because we're actually closing on a one-bedroom condo at the moment. Oh, they're dope. Yeah, it's so cool. It's it's over there, it's uh here in Dallas. And the thing about it was this was cool. Uh we talked about arbitrage a little bit, not in glowing terms earlier. But what's cool about arbitraging because we we were arbitraging this place first, and so we got to know the owner, and then we're buying it directly from the owner and getting a good deal, you know. I'm saying, so we got to test drive it. We're like, holy crap, this thing's making us like three or four grand a month. One bedroom condo, who would have thought she says I'm gonna sell it. Yeah, hell yeah, we're gonna buy it from you. So it gets your foot in the door, you know, you get a relationship with the with the person you're arbitraging from, and then you can buy it if it if it if you can see if it's making good money, it makes it made better money than like a couple of our houses that we have. Holy smokes! So, yeah, one bedroom condos, I'm all for it.

SPEAKER_04 51:58

No, arbitrage definitely has a place, and like there are people like we talked about Rafa before, he's got another podcast, the big break show, and he does mostly arbitrage. And so for him, he had talked about getting a nurse contract, you know, doing a direct through the hospital or through a recruiter, and then saying, I don't even have this place, but I'm gonna go find it, right? So he'll just go arbitrage it. And when he has a contract in hand, he's not showing up like some schlump saying, like, I want to Airbnb or place. He's saying, you know, I'm a professional, I've got contracts with the hospital. This is gonna be a doctor, you know, we we're gonna use your place for these like things, and you just seem like people want to say yes to that. Like, okay, this guy's above the board, this is what he's doing. So I think that's pretty cool.

SPEAKER_03 52:44

Yeah, Raf is the man.

SPEAKER_01 52:46

Yeah, Ralph is killing it.

SPEAKER_03 52:49

So, what kind of okay, what kind of supplies do you leave for the guests? Like, as far as they you want to encourage them to keep the house clean a little bit, right?

SPEAKER_04 52:56

Yeah, so it's all the same things as a short-term rental, but what you can do is you can ration it if you'd like. Um, I tell people to do this, we don't always do it because it's a little more work for the cleaners, but like you technically could just start them out with two rolls of toilet paper per bathroom, a roll of like paper towels, like one dishwasher pod, one laundry pot. You know, like you can be real simple and then just say, and we do, we say everywhere, like, we're getting you started. If it runs out, it's your responsibility. And what's cool is that people are there so long they leave a lot of stuff. So it's very rare that we actually have to buy supplies because people are a little more, but it's like more of a partnership. Like, if you've got a short-term rental, they are not going to get you batteries. But if somebody's been living there for two months, they'll they'll go to the store. They're like, Oh yeah, cool, you know, this is my place and this is my remote, and I'm gonna go get some batteries.

SPEAKER_03 53:48

It's different. They don't they don't like to be bothered. What I've noticed, you know, like travel nurses and stuff like uh does somebody really have to come over? I mean, I could do it, you know. That they don't want to be that's their space, like you said, it's their space. It's great. It takes takes three, by the way, travel nurses to change a light bulb.

SPEAKER_01 54:03

If anybody's wondering, quick question for you, Ziona. You said do you use profit first for your business?

SPEAKER_04 54:11

I don't. You I've heard of it. I know, I probably should. There's so many things, you know. You call me an expert, but I don't have all the answers. I'm still a human.

SPEAKER_01 54:20

No, I are youx. I was like, most people, a lot of people in the short-term middle space don't even have a capex account, you know. And you because you said capex at one at five percent. I was like, oh, most people don't have that.

SPEAKER_04 54:30

That's why I thought you used profit verse, but yeah, I just opened no, it's it's the way I run my numbers when I'm first analyzing a deal. I want to have capex in it. So even though like what I do for my properties is like I get it to a certain point. So I'll like I'll have an account for like with 10 grand in it. And then once it's over 10 grand, then I'll just like take the money out on my own. So I just have like a rule of thumb depending on the property, and then if it like if we have an expense and it goes below that, then I just let it fill itself back up and then I only take off the top. So it's it's not like a perfect science, but I want to know when I'm running my numbers is there enough meat on the bone?

SPEAKER_01 55:10

Okay, that's that's the good thing about running it's a long-term runner. Yeah, go ahead, see.

SPEAKER_03 55:14

Speaking of cap X, utility cap. You see what I did there? You see how I did cap to cap, anyways.

SPEAKER_05 55:22

No, still trying to figure it out.

SPEAKER_03 55:26

We've been floating this around because only because Texas, well, I don't know, everywhere in the world energy is I mean, double now. And it costs the utilities are freaking crazy. If you have a place where if you're in a place where it all shared, it's you're wonderful. But if you're in a house that they're just putting it on, like

Utility cap question and HOA-included Wi-Fi in new builds

SPEAKER_03 55:40

you know, 50 degrees every day in the summertime, it can hurt. So, so do you put you ever do you um I know the answer, you know, I know the answer. Do you ever put like a utility cap? Say if you spend over a hundred bucks a month, you're gonna have to pay out of pocket for the utility.

SPEAKER_04 55:53

Well, that's interesting. Um, I haven't I had one tenant ever that I started noticing it was like high, and I just like talked to him about it, and he's like, Okay, I'll watch it. So I think like if it gets excessive, I'll reach out to somebody and be like, hey, you know, like I'm gonna have to make you pay if it goes over this. But again, those properties that I find that have like shared, like they'll have like a boiler in the building and stuff, and it's all shared. Like, they are the lowest utilities ever because all I'm paying for is electrical and Wi-Fi. It's cheap.

SPEAKER_03 56:26

See that the the the um condo we're getting into, right? That we're closing on. It's so cool because they have a HOA, of course, and they have a your HOA fee, but rolled into the HOA fee itself is all the utilities, so they can they can spend as much on you know energy on electric or or whatever as they want, and it's not gonna cost us one penny more. So yeah, yeah, it's cool.

SPEAKER_04 56:49

I love the places that have Wi-Fi that they're doing now in all the buildings. That's like kind of a newer thing. I don't see it too often, but like for some new new builds, I see it, and I'm like, that's brilliant. Why do we all have to have our own when like you know, you look on the Wi-Fi and there's like 50 of them?

SPEAKER_03 57:05

It's like, come on, why do we have to hack our neighbors? You know what I'm saying?

SPEAKER_04 57:08

It's like you know, Comcast is just killing it.

SPEAKER_01 57:12

So says something actually. You said both of you guys are saying, so if like all your utilities are rolled into the HOA, Wi-Fi, all that, do you guys do a background check on the HOA to like make sure they have a reserve amount? Because let's say that stuff runs out now. The hey, well, HOA fees got to go up. How do you guys do how do you do how do you take that into account?

SPEAKER_04 57:32

Yeah, so um at the time that you're buying, you get like the HOA docs. And so you get a series of HOA minutes, which they usually do a monthly meeting. And so it'll talk about anything coming up. And so in those minutes, I scan through to see if there's anything sketchy, like we're outlawing short-term rentals or you know, anything like that. Um, but usually that all is fine and it just kind of shows you, and then you can see the budgets over the years, but there's something called a reserve study, which they have a company like a third party come in and say, This is all the expenses for the next 20 years that we estimate and what they'll cost over the years with inflation and everything. And you have X amount based on what you're gonna need, and so you want them to be at least 35% funded. That's like the safe number. Um, and then from there you can kind of say, like, you know, maybe they had this problem. Do I feel good about it or not? Like then you just decide. But that's that's kind of the rule.

SPEAKER_03 58:32

See her, yeah, Zayana's um strategy is a little bit different than mine. I just you know asked the neighbor, hey bro, is the HOA good? You say, Yeah, sure. And then I'm okay, cool.

SPEAKER_04 58:44

Oh my God. So we live in a townhome in Boulder, and it's like we have to do a big siding project, and it's like a million dollars. Like, I mean, it can look like, oh, it's cool, we got all this money in the account, and then you don't. So, you know, you gotta like feel like they're managing it well. Um, but yeah, I'm one of the places I own two condos in one building, and the HOA president, like she does so much stuff for free. She's retired and she's like in the laundry cleaning it up and doing all these things. I'm like, that is a well-run place, like she's just taking care of shit. So you want those places where people like really care.

SPEAKER_03 59:22

Right and ownership, yeah. I love that's right. That's right. So what's in it? Okay, you've gone from short-term rentals, right? Then you've gone to midterm rentals. What what's next? Long-term rentals.

SPEAKER_04 59:36

Maybe. I mean, I have a couple. I thought for a while there that I was like only gonna buy new construction and long term and like start to transition there because I was like, okay, new construction won't, they're not gonna ask me for anything for like 10 years,

Creative financing, subject-to deals, and calling expired listings

SPEAKER_04 59:51

you know. That's great. But I am maybe a little bit of a control freak, and I started having property managers on the long terms, and man, they just they're just slow. There's like all this vacancy in between, and you know, that they don't advertise right away. Like after being a property manager myself for so long, it's just a little painful to watch, even if you get to be hands off. So I think the next move would really be syndications if I can ever get away from owning, but I just I just like it. They're like my little tinker projects, I'm a babies.

SPEAKER_03 1:00:27

That's cool. You don't have to go to syndication. Uh yeah, I might who knows. I mean, I mean, yeah, you could, you know. I know people kill it in that, but um cool. Well, I think we've asked you a shit.

SPEAKER_04 1:00:40

Okay, wait, this is what's next. So this is what I'm like really passionate about right now. Midterms, sorry, smids, no, um, creative financing, I think, is what's next right now. So I've been learning a lot about subject two and seller financing, and so I'm excited about that. I'm doing it a lot for my clients, but also for myself that I'm excited about moving into that space because as a seller, it allows you to just make a monthly uh income because of your equity in your home. And so it's kind of like still getting that cash flow without actually having to manage or, you know, find tenants, keep the property up at all. That's awesome. But also as a buyer, you don't have to qualify for a loan. You can take over a loan that is like 3%. Like when things are eight to 10% and they could go higher than that, like this is where we need to go. So even stuff that's on market, if it's been on market two months, I'm calling them up and I'm saying, Hey, you're gonna take some terms. What are we gonna do? So I think if it's a really cool space, you're so gang, you're so gangster.

SPEAKER_03 1:01:49

Hey, we what are we gonna do with this? Uh 10 months, what the sorry, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:01:54

I like it.

SPEAKER_03 1:01:56

You need to listen to our buddy, uh, what's his name, Micah? The the Adam Johnson, yeah, yeah. He's all about subject two. Oh, you would love those episodes.

SPEAKER_04 1:02:04

Oh, nice. What's his name? Adam Johnson? Okay, yeah. I'm in Pace Morby's stuff. I love all his stuff, but the thing about Pace he loves to tell a story, and it's just like all over the place. And I'm like, can someone just tell me like A to Z? I this is how you do it. I just want to watch one YouTube, I don't want to watch 20 hours of YouTube. So that is my frustration.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:26

Yeah, that we're we're really me and my wife are really bullish on sub two right now, too. Like just learning the process. Yeah, because it's like you just have to list what do we need to sign so I can just take over this mortgage so this guy doesn't get pre. So yeah, we're real bull bullish on it right now, too. Now, have you been looking at maybe sub twoing pre-foreclosures?

SPEAKER_04 1:02:45

No, I I don't know. Seems a little bit complicated. I mean, what we have done is like I've got somebody on my team who calls expireds, and so it's hard to know if they're like in a weird spot, but I think it's just like the market shifted so fast, where it was like places were under contract in three days, and now they're sitting almost three months, and so people are stuck on this price. They're like, I just want my high price, and so if we can still give them their high price, but now we've got all these cool terms, it can be a win-win. It's great, it's just it still feels a little confusing, and that's the part that's hard is that you have to explain why it makes sense for somebody, and they are usually a little sketched out about it.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:30

A lot of people they always tell the person, the seller, hey, speak to your CPA, and usually a CPA will give them a good guidance of like, hey, this is what you're gonna get with it being this price for this amount of time. Um, because I'm bullish on it too. Like, sub twos the way, especially right now, interest rates are high. Get a three percent mortgage takeover.

SPEAKER_03 1:03:50

And like, like Xionna said, the best way to convince somebody is say, Hey, what are we gonna do here? What are we gonna do with this thing?

SPEAKER_05 1:03:57

Oh my god, it's so funny because you are like my co-host, like everything's going well, and then you make a stupid dad joke.

SPEAKER_03 1:04:05

I love it. Stupid, bad joke. Yeah, I'll tell you something. Okay, so I have a pool, right? Uh there's a pool dude that that takes care of the pool, right? This pool, this pool guy. He comes in, I pay him by check. He wants to be paid by check. I don't know, it's an IRS thing. Anyway, so I leave it on the grill, and because I'm not here whenever he gets his check. So the other day he went to get the check out of the grill, right? And and the dumbass turned on the grill and burned up the check. The worst part of it is that I'm gonna go to jail now for writing a hot check.

SPEAKER_05 1:04:36

No, that you should cut out.

SPEAKER_03 1:04:42

Oh, come on.

SPEAKER_05 1:04:45

I'm a hater. I'm a hater.

SPEAKER_03 1:04:46

I thought about no, no, no, hate. I thought about putting on the trampoline though, but I was afraid it was gonna bounce.

SPEAKER_05 1:04:53

That was better. That was cute.

SPEAKER_03 1:04:55

No, come on, no, crickets, god jokes. It's funny.

SPEAKER_04 1:05:00

There are people out there listening, laughing, right? I know they're there somewhere.

SPEAKER_03 1:05:06

I can hear them in my head at night. I can hear them. My own audience. Yeah, it's beautiful. Um thank you. We're gonna we're gonna end it on. No, no, we're not gonna end it yet. I want to know one more question. Why did you compliment Micah's hair and not mine?

SPEAKER_04 1:05:20

I mean, mine's your hair actually looks really great too. I know. I it's just like I think I was like fixing all my stuff. I came on the show and then I saw Micah and I was like, dang, he looks great. But then I was like, Oh yeah, your hair looks great too. Look at that little little swoopy. I don't know what you call that.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:37

I don't know. Nice, guys.

SPEAKER_04 1:05:38

If you're not watching on YouTube, you need to you need to change that immediately. You need to smooth these guys in order.

SPEAKER_03 1:05:44

Yeah, guys too.

SPEAKER_04 1:05:45

True.

SPEAKER_03 1:05:46

It's a different world. Okay. Where can people find you, Ziana?

SPEAKER_04 1:05:53

All right. Um, gosh, I'm in all the places. I think the easiest one, yeah, go get our book, biggerpockets.com slash 30 days stay. Um, Instagram, Xiana McIntyre, and then check out my podcast, Invest number two five investify. Um, it's a good show.

SPEAKER_03 1:06:12

Investify. Oh, now I get it. Like testify, investify.

SPEAKER_04 1:06:16

Okay, yeah, for us, it's like using real estate investing to get to financial independence. That's like that's our whole deal.

SPEAKER_03 1:06:23

It's great. I dig it. I dig it. Any more questions for the queen of midterm rentals? Yeah, I that's your title now.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:31

That is it, Ziona. Thank you for coming on. I think this is your third. Y'all could say second, but I'm pretty sure third. I'm gonna find all three episodes and DM both of you. Uh, but yeah, thank y'all for coming on and thank you for coming on and uh continue much continued success coming your way. Keep on grinding and be keep being an inspiration and a light.

SPEAKER_04 1:06:49

Thank you guys. This is really fun.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:51

Yeah, it was adios. Bye, Diana.

SPEAKER_04 1:06:54

Bye, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:55

All right, another episode in the bag, episode what Stevie Stacks, uh 231, 231. Let's go. Man, that was a really good episode.

SPEAKER_03 1:07:06

Uh, she always brings it, dude. She's so cool, man. She's just so laid back, and then she's just dropping freaking lefts and right and uppercuts, and just holy smokes, I didn't even think about that. But to her, it's just like I just did this and no big deal, you know. I'm saying, but us is like, holy crap, this is awesome, man. The stuff that she's telling us. Omaha, who would have thought of Omaha, you know? And I wonder, no, no, no, no.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:27

You know what? We have a fan in Omaha who came on the podcast who has the big ass houses up there, remember? Yes, to the people that come in, like you were saying, from Buffett stuff. That's what we were making is big money, yeah, yeah, yeah. And that was a long time ago.

SPEAKER_03 1:07:43

Yeah, that was a great show. This was a great show, Zayana. See out uh, she's been on Bigger Pockets, she's been on our show, and then a bunch of other shows, but the main two in the whole world is us in Bigger Pockets, right? Oh, the main ones, yeah. So we love having her on. Get her book, 30 days stay on bigger pockets, whatever you order it from there or Amazon. And um, yeah, thank y'all for listening. We are um live let thrive at gmo.com, live let thrive.com. Uh our just rentals, my company, arg E S T Rent Tools. Hit me up. Mica's got a company too.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:19

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Thank y'all. First off, thank y'all for continuing to listen. Find us livelethrive gmail.com. Follow us on Livelet Thrive on Instagram, leave a like and please subscribe, leave us a review, we'll shout you out. And uh yeah, yeah, if you have any ugly houses out there, ain't he's house, whoever's house, ugly house, hit me up. We will definitely take a look at it. If you're on Instagram, hit up Mahogany, send it to her, and uh we'll see what we can do. Other than that, we are out later.

SPEAKER_00 1:08:48

Thank you for tuning in to this week's episode of Live Let Thrive. Be sure to tune in next week for all the latest in the world of Airbnb and all that entails. Bye bye.