Cold open

SPEAKER_00 0:00

Welcome to Little Edgar Life, a podcast about the Airbnb live, the share economy, and everything in between. Here are your hosts, Micah and Steve.

SPEAKER_04 0:12

Hello, hello, hello.

SPEAKER_02 0:14

Welcome back to another exciting episode of Live. Hello, hello, hello. Welcome back to another exciting episode.

SPEAKER_04 0:28

Oh, Liv let Rive. What is up, Micah Man?

SPEAKER_02 0:34

I'm chilling, Stevie Stacks. How you doing?

SPEAKER_04 0:37

Wonderful, wonderful. Feeling good today on this Friday. So it's podcast day, man. I'm happy. How you doing?

SPEAKER_02 0:44

Friday at five. Good, good. Good to be off work, ready for the weekend. Let's do it.

SPEAKER_04 0:48

Yeah, you all uh recovered from yesterday, the big meetup.

SPEAKER_02 0:52

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Recovering, recovering. Uh, and we got a special guest from that meetup, man.

SPEAKER_04 0:58

What? Who do we got? You want me to intro him intro him?

Jonathan Wicks and Well and Good's 35,000 turnovers across five markets

SPEAKER_04 1:04

Well, this is episode 245 of your favorite Airbnb VRBO, short-term, mid-term rental podcast in the world. And we do have a special guest. And that special guest is Jonathan Wicks. He's the founder of Well and Good Property Services. And he did that in 2020, by the way. Since then, they've become the leader in full-scale servicing by bundling the cleaning off site laundry and supplying of guest essentials, having completed over 35,000 turnovers in five markets. Well and good is looking to bring consistently and confidence. No, I think you meant consistency. Consistency and confidence to hosts and guests in their industry. Welcome to the show, Jonathan Wicks.

SPEAKER_01 1:53

Well, thanks, fellas. Good to see you again. We had ourselves a night last night, and it's good to be on the podcast today. Oh, right.

SPEAKER_04 2:02

You're gonna bring it today, huh, John?

SPEAKER_01 2:04

I I suppose so. I yeah, maybe you you guys are the ones that bring it. I just I just supporting cast over here.

SPEAKER_04 2:10

We bring the whiskey and vodka, and you do the rest.

SPEAKER_01 2:13

So I like that.

SPEAKER_02 2:14

Yeah, but you've been on the uh road, haven't you? Because you just got back from what Nashville? Now you're in Dallas.

SPEAKER_01 2:21

Yeah, I've been doing this road show thing once a month where we kind of are both talking with some of our newer markets, and you know, with everything in launching markets, there's always a lot of conversations prior to that. So we're talking with folks in in different areas about about potentially launching, as well as some of the conferences that are going on in this industry. There's a lot of that that happens too. So a lot of on the road. I haven't been home in three weeks. I'm missing my bed.

SPEAKER_04 2:45

So so turnover king, turnover specialists. What are the top uh problems or uh complaints from

Solving hard to find good cleaners by letting them focus on cleaning

SPEAKER_04 2:54

hosts about the turnover situation and how do y'all fix that?

SPEAKER_01 2:59

I I think if you were saying top one, it's that they can't find good cleaners. So everybody says hard to find good cleaners. And uh, and I think with that, I don't disagree that in the in the traditional sense of short-term rentals, it is hard to find good cleaners because a lot of times cleaners I've actually the best cleaners, a lot of times have avoided this industry because they don't like to deal with all the other stuff that's outside of cleaning. So they don't want to do the laundry, they don't want to have to deal with the letting the host know that they're missing something and then have it Amazon to their house or something like that. So that is what we've tried to solve in the sense of having the cleaners be able to be strictly focused on the cleaning. We will set them up with all the other items. So I think the biggest thing I hear is that it's really hard to find good cleaners. And we have certainly worked to bring in the best cleaners back to our industry uh by allowing them to be set up for success and actually focus on the things that they're great at.

SPEAKER_02 3:55

That brings me, yeah. I'm happy you said that. Like, so when you guys come into a market, because you guys take care of everything. Well, actually, yeah, that's Steve kind of went over what you guys do. So when you guys come into a market, do you bring your own cleaners? Do you hire new cleaners or you train existing ones? How does it work?

SPEAKER_01 4:12

Yeah, so it's a bit of a combination. We've had instances where we've had some hosts who are doing a full transfer of both properties as well as the the folks they have in their organization. So there's some hosts that say, hey, listen, I've got some great cleaners. They just need some, they need some structure, some systems processes, things like that. And uh, and so that does uh that does happen occasionally where we're doing um you know referral-based to get to get the cleaning. But either way, we are also going to be working in every market to recruit our own our own teams. And uh, and so teams that are coming strictly uh through our sources. So uh we have a market leader who's on site in every market, and they're they're working with some of some of that recruiting process and the training process and things like that. So I would say it's a combination of both, both referrals from our existing hosts as well as our local on-site team that is doing uh the on-site training and recruiting, even of teammates there. Okay.

SPEAKER_04 5:07

So okay, and some cool, you know, you you talked about last night at the um at the meetup, the Dallas meetup, and some of y'all were there, but um, was having a market leader in the city. And why do you have that and why is that important?

SPEAKER_01 5:21

Yeah, it's huge. I think uh, you know, a lot of people in this uh in servicing uh don't understand that it's a service, you know, servicing is servicing, which means you have to actually have humans to do it. Uh, you cannot tech your way through servicing. Uh, you know, the tech technology is important and we use it and we emphasize it where it needs to be, but there is a lot that has to have uh leadership and it has to have guidance from on-site people. So we are big. We will we don't launch into a market unless we have on-site operations, and that on-site operation starts with a market leader. Uh, that market leader is the person who's responsible for the calendar ultimately. You know, the the buck stops with them because ultimately you guys know when you get checkouts, it's it's checkouts, check-ins. There is a there is a in you know, short period of time and a lot has to happen. And so the market leader is so huge to know that they've got the right teams in place to be uh to be able to even jump in when needed, too. And uh, and that is something that we know we can't do a market without the right market leader on site. And uh yeah, we've got that in Dallas. It was it was it was cool to to get a chance to

The Chick-fil-A market-leader model: local operations over remote tech

SPEAKER_01 6:25

meet some of the local hosts last night and kind of get get introduced them to our local market leader because it's not just me. If it was just the Jonathan show, we'd have we'd have we'd have troubles, honestly, where there has to be there has to be has to be leadership.

SPEAKER_04 6:36

You know, you know what that that reminds me of real quick, you know, kind of off topic. But do you do you know anything about how Chick-fil-A puts a new uh Chick-fil-A in a certain market? You know anything about that? I want to hear it. Okay, so it's different than a lot of other um fast food establishments. Let's say, for example, McDonald's. I got a million bucks, I can make I can start me at McDonald's, I got at least the land from them and buy all the food from them, but I can start me at McDonald's and keep, I think I keep 90% of the profit. Something like that. I could be way off, anyways. Chick-fil-A does a little different. They have a rock star, um, manager at one of their restaurants, you know, kicking ass, maybe starts, you know, he can manage several restaurants. I don't know. Like someone that's totally kicking ass, they get the the golden phone call and and they call, hey, do you want your own Chick-fil-A? And most of them say yes, you know, they make millions of dollars a year. The uh one location can make two or three million a year, whatever, or more. And and so all they have to pay is 10,000 bucks of their own money to have skin in the game. Chick-fil-A does everything else for you. You know, they tell you what city, what location you're gonna start your own Chick-fil-A, and and then it's a successful Chick-fil-a because they put a rock star in place that they know is gonna end the in the right area that that knows gonna uh do a great job for them, not just a random anybody off the street buying a Chick-fil-A and starting one.

SPEAKER_01 7:53

I love that. And you talk about a company who is all about culture, who's all about their their people and you know, forward service forward, and uh there's a reason why why they they do that. And I just I could not agree with that with the philosophy more of just like it is about getting the right person in the right seat, especially in that leadership thing, because if the foundation is good, as as Marin Morris said, if the bones are good, man, the rest don't matter. That's it. You gotta have you gotta. Is that Maren Morris? I think it's Marin Morris.

SPEAKER_04 8:22

Nice now. They do take 50% of your profits at Chick-fil-A, but hey, $10,000, you got your own Chick-fil-A.

SPEAKER_01 8:28

You would rather have, I think you'd rather be a part of something that is extremely successful, and then also with a team around you that is going to make sure that they're playing to your strengths and all that, than to be out on some island and and be completely alone, fight fending for yourself in every way. So I think that if you were to interview the Chick-fil-A uh people who are getting the 50% taken, they'd probably be like, yeah, but you know what they give for that 50%? They're giving me all the support and all the leadership that I need and you know and and everything. I meant it it is all about like what do they say? Elon Musk owns like 17% of Tesla. You know, like it's it's it's completely okay to have to have that uh that plurality of ownership in the sense, and that does make for success a lot of times.

SPEAKER_02 9:09

One of the great things about Chick-fil-A that's you often missed is the reason why it's so successful is because the person that they get the person that puts up the 10,000 is committed. The reason how they're committed is they sign a contract of, hey, this is how long you have to do this, and then that person is so committed that 10,000 they put up, they take the 50%. But they have, like you said, a market leader who's committed to the job. So it works, man. So and it was awesome meeting your uh market leader last night, man. So he's a great guy.

SPEAKER_01 9:39

We we have gotten we have gotten so fortunate, and maybe it is because of just uh you know our intention of getting the right people, but in every market that we've launched into, we have just had the right person at the right time in both their life with the experience and and they're all unique. We have not had a single market leader that that looks background, anything like the other market leaders, but what they all have in common is that they are committed to service, they love people, they're gonna be all about excellence, and uh and those people still exist in our society. I'm I'm convinced of it. I've seen it happen already, and we we don't launch a market until we found one of those.

Six current markets and expansion into Dallas and Omaha

SPEAKER_02 10:13

One thing I want to ask you, especially for like the people who weren't there last night, um, what not only what markets are you currently in? Because I know you just came to Texas, and then also can you kind of just give like a brief overview of how your team changes the entire turnover process for a potential host?

SPEAKER_01 10:31

Yeah, yeah. So I'll start with the markets that we're in. Uh we are headquartered and uh and started in the uh Phoenix, Scottsdale, Arizona market, and that was where we started two years ago, and we now are in the Houston, Texas market as well as Galveston. Uh, we also are in Boise, Idaho. Um, we are then in the Flagstaff area, Flagstaff and Sedona area of Arizona as well. And then now, as of recently, we just launched in Dallas, Texas, and Omaha, Nebraska. Those are the official ones. I could I could give you a couple of the unofficial. Uh, we are we're going to be in a couple of markets here in the next couple of weeks. So if you if you follow our Instagram, you can see the new markets as we're launching them. But uh, we're doing it strategically. But those are the markets that we're in right now. And uh yeah, I could get into a little bit of what you said about how we how we kind of go if you if you wanted me to dive into that. Yeah, the the how we how we transition the um the overall on-site operations is that we bundle the process that needs to happen at the house, which is that there's gotta be cleaning, there's gotta be laundry that that happens at some way, and then there's gotta be guest essentials. So those three things, we take each of those items and we just obsess over them. So we do the cleaning by providing the cleaners. We also are we're so we're compensating them, we're training them, we are verifying who they are, making sure that we know we have the right team there. We're doing all the laundry off-site, uh, not relying on the washers and dryers in the units. So that way they're getting a full cycle each time. We're doing that with standardized linens. So you've got your white hotel style linens and towels, bath mats, kitchen towels, everything that needs to be laundered. We do that offsite. And then we also combine the guest essentials, which are the soaps, the paper products, your consumable items like trash bags and dishwasher pods, the things that the guests need to have. And we ensure that they are there because we are actually providing those items and we're we're purchasing them, placing, and providing them each time. So that bundled service is in a nutshell what we do for our host partners.

SPEAKER_02 12:28

So a host doesn't have to worry about restock and sending stuff to cleaners anymore. Well and good gonna handle all of that.

SPEAKER_01 12:34

Yeah, no more, no more purchasing toilet paper uh from Amazon hoping that it gets to your cleaner in time to stock the house. Yeah, I know that world. I was a host, I know, and I still do hosting. And it is a it is a totally different world when you are talking about having that truly done and done by somebody, a company who is really doing it well. And uh, and so yeah, there's no purchasing of the of the guest essentials that's needed on the host. You look at all the line items that a typical host has, right? They've got their consumable line items, they've got their linen line items, they've got their their cleaners, everything about that. We take that and bundle it together, and that bundle brings the value with it, but it also brings the actual uh product in the in the field to be great. Like the houses are going to be stocked. There's not going to be a question of whether the linens are stained or not. It's it's all there, and it's it's certainly it's it's what was needed in this industry, and we found we found the right way to do it.

SPEAKER_02 13:31

You're muted, Steve.

SPEAKER_04 13:33

Okay, my first mistake of the day. So you keep saying houses. Are the only things are the only places you service are

Bundled pricing vs. $60 street cleaners and when one-bedrooms make sense

SPEAKER_04 13:39

houses, or you do one-bedroom condos, two-bedroom condos, anything like that?

SPEAKER_01 13:42

Yeah, any size property. We service any size property. We don't do any any uh, I would say commercial, but any any residential unit that that is if it's got a bed, we service it. Yeah, yeah. There's there's uh condos. Uh we work with some properties that are full buildings, you know, where it's where it's a building that is all short-term rentals, and we will we will service that even boutique hotels. Uh, we are working with some of those. So any type of size is definitely uh doable for our our company, um, provided that it's in one of the markets that we service.

SPEAKER_04 14:12

Now here's a question on that, because that's for example, and uh for a house, I think is a wonderful thing, you know, and it it validates the price tag. Your price is a little higher than like just me hiring a cleaner off the street to do something right. Now there's pros and cons to that, of course. But like let's just say, for example, here in Dallas, I can get a cleaner for around 60 65 bucks to do a turnover, right? And and you're a bit more. So do you think that it doesn't make sense that some of the smaller units that aren't maybe uh a class A unit, you know what I'm saying? Maybe it's a class B or C unit.

SPEAKER_01 14:49

I think I think that there are there are some properties that you could say uh fit the the need for our service more than others. And I think I think all of them can benefit, no question. But there one of the things is, you know, does a uh does that one bedroom that you described, does it have a laundrying capability, right? Because if you don't have the ability to do laundry, then then our service becomes like a necessity almost almost no matter what. Uh but let's say that you've got the one bedroom that's that's in an area that's that's maybe not near other condos and uh and it's gonna be something that that the cleaner is gonna go there and do that laundry on site. Because if you have an on-site unit, I'm certainly not saying that that you know that that that's not a that's not an option. Certainly it is. And so yeah, there's there's different properties that would make more sense. What we know is that we're going to benefit every property. Our benefit rises a lot more when you have more beds for sure, because that means more laundry that needs to be done on site. And then also if you don't have the ability to do laundry at all, take the unit that doesn't have the laundry uh capabilities, or even has like a shared laundry where the cleaners have to be going down and doing a coin operated something or other. That just gets really intricate and it leads to bad decisions being made by the cleaners. That's the problem, is that if you're setting your cleaners in those positions, what we know is they're gonna, they're gonna just be like, all right, screw it. I I'm I'm I'm throwing the old seats back on. This is what it's gonna be. And so we just we eliminate those variables. And I think that is that is one of those things that does does help, especially if there's not laundering capabilities in those one one bedroom that you're referring to.

SPEAKER_02 16:21

I'm happy you brought that up because uh I'm having to fire a cleaner right now because of this exact situation where my my people, the uh guest shows up, the place sleep seven, they only left out four tiles. I'm like, come on, man. But but I it sounds like you guys solved that issue because you're providing the lid in then also is your turnovers a little bit faster because you don't have to wash on site, and therefore we can probably you know get guests in sooner or things of that nature.

SPEAKER_01 16:50

Absolutely. That's the other thing, is it it promotes efficiency across the board. So not only is there no variables, right? So they're gonna come with everything they need. So there's no chance that there's not enough of something, but it just it is so much they can focus on the clean, do the clean, and then move on to the next property. And so for the cleaners, it's more efficient, but for the guest side of it, yeah, they're able to get in faster. And we do see 82% of our properties are available for at least a two-hour minimum early check-in. And so that's a that's a huge thing. I know, I know that as I'm traveling, I'm always wanting guests, guests want news flash, guests want to stay later and then get in earlier. We know that that's the way that this business is. And so how how we you know, how we do our service accommodates both. And our client leads team is also really good at at working with our teams to see, like, hey, can we allow a late checkout here? Can we allow an early check-in? Let's do that. The other aspect is hosts have access to see when we wrap up our service, they can send then see, okay, it's done, let's let's send the guest in. So, yeah, a lot, a lot of benefits there to getting people in the houses. That's the goal.

82% of properties ready for two-hour early check-in

SPEAKER_01 17:51

I mean, like, goal is let's get people in, let's get them happier. If you got a guest that's asking for an early check-in, if you can grant that, your chances of a successful stay within that guest just skyrocket, right? Whereas if you're not able to grant it, they're walking in a little frustrated. They're like, Man, I've been I've been sitting at the local Starbucks for the last three hours trying to get into this place, you know, and they're just you know, tired traveling is is a whole thing. And so, no doubt I want to get guests into the houses as soon as possible. And our our systems help that.

SPEAKER_02 18:19

No, do you got oh Christie?

SPEAKER_04 18:22

Oh, sorry. Now, now check this out real quick because I I I know y'all are doing the the full thing, the full turnover, laundry, um, linens, uh, supplies, everything. Um now I'm gonna get to snacks and food. I don't want to bring that up because okay, it's cool. Uh it's easy enough to say, hey, tell the cleaner to leave a couple snacks out and a couple waters, whatever. Uh sometimes they do, sometimes they don't, you know, it's whatever. Um, but uh beyond that, uh something that we've always thought of in the industry is upsells. You know, we hear people say that oh, you can sell like a little popcorn and coke and you know, snack package for their movie night and then you know, Netflix and chill. You can sell, you know, different things and make some money, or even put a vending machine in your place. But the only thing they always come back to is like, okay, our cleaners are already, you know, okay, we got some decent cleaners, but they're not, I would say if you ask for anything else, it would be damn near impossible because they're always pushing it on time, right? And so I was would y'all, your your team, be able to provide services like that.

SPEAKER_01 19:26

So, in a short, what I would say is when we do that, we will do it right. And the fact that we haven't done it yet is because we don't know exactly how we're going to pull some of that off in terms of the because I do agree that there's a there's a big market for the just the vending machine type of capability. I'm staying at an Airbnb right now that we were like, man, it'd be nice to have a bottle of wine. And like that would be really cool if you could, you know, make that happen and send a code with your thing. There all there that exists, but I think that it's all about can it be done really well? Because the worst thing is to have that be there and it not be stocked or it not be right. And uh, and so what we do provide is a la carte uh gift baskets. So if you have a guest that you're wanting to provide a bottle of wine in advance for, we do that. We do also, you know, the bottles of water and we so we do supply gift baskets, but that's a nuanced thing. I think you and I you we were talking about this a bit, like just you know, the in the individual couple bottles of water doesn't really move the needles and just give that to the guests each time. Probably not as much, but I I do love the idea of being able to either either provide something customized for them as a gift or potentially provide them options to be able to purchase. And we're working on that. Um, I can't say that I've got the exact solutions yet, but I think we will be the company to provide those solutions. Uh, we're we're big on like, man, if we do it, we want to be like make sure we can do it right. And there's that that's coming. And uh I I'm with you that it does help if it's an option.

SPEAKER_04 20:48

Because if you can do it right, it would pretty much pay for your service by the stuff we could sell to these guests.

SPEAKER_01 20:52

I agree, I agree. And it's in if especially if you found the just a few items, like you said, the popcorn's good, you know, definitely the bottle of wine. I think people would be into that as long as you can figure out the legalities of that. You know, like there's there's some aspects to selling it that is different versus actually giving it. And so that those are the things that we'd want to like cross over in terms of the hurdles, but uh, but we know we can give the bottle of wine and we can give the bottle of champagne for the anniversary. You know, you have a guest that's coming, you know it's an anniversary, we can do it, and our our teams will write a nice note on it and things like that. So those things exist, but the large-scale standardized uh vending machine style, there are some companies that try to do it, and Steven, you said it so well. They're relying on a cleaning team to actually execute that. So then the the technology company that's putting that in oftentimes ends up looking silly because the cleaning team doesn't back it up with actually getting it restocked correctly and things like that. So, yeah, it's it's an interesting whole side of the bit of the industry that's probably coming, but it's just where is it right now? Still in flux.

SPEAKER_02 21:54

Now, with your guys, is how you guys operate. Do you guys have a supply closet on site or do you guys have it?

The one-foot-by-two-foot blue mat replaces inventory closets

SPEAKER_02 22:00

Off site. How does that work?

SPEAKER_01 22:01

So we eliminate the inventory closet as it's been known within the industry, which is great. Yeah. Yeah. The inventory inventory closets are a nightmare within our industry. It looks, it looks like Costco threw up in it. It's just not, it's not what you want. And uh what we do, we do have a one-foot by two foot area underneath the sink. It's gonna have a blue mat. And that is all that we need in terms of space to be able to store anything. So it's not locked, it's nothing like that. That is where we store things like the laundry pods or the dishwasher pods, uh, things like our foaming hand soap refills, things like that for our teams to refill. Uh so yeah, that's it. It's a it's a one foot by two foot area and it's underneath the sink. Um, if for some reason there's not availability underneath the sink, we find the closest cabinet or something like that that works for it. But it's a blue mat. So it's very specific that that's where our items are going to live. But the nice thing is we don't lock those areas up. We don't have that like, you know, with a different code and all this stuff. And you've seen some of these like crazy, you know, somebody's got to go hide a key or do this. And it's just so it's complicated for the cleaners. And again, I I've been in these cleaners' shoes where they're like, all right, I and you know what they end up doing is just screw it. I don't know where to find this lockbox that you're talking about, and I'm not leaving the I'm not leaving the toilet paper out now. And that that's the issues that our industry has seen so much. So, yep, eliminating that, having them bring in what they need each time is is the main thing.

SPEAKER_04 23:24

Or the previous cleaner takes off with the damn key and then someone.

SPEAKER_01 23:31

Goodness, goodness.

SPEAKER_04 23:33

We've seen it all, man.

SPEAKER_01 23:34

We've seen it all.

SPEAKER_04 23:35

Um, so I want to bring up something. So last night was really cool. You know, we had we had our meetup and the Dallas meetup, and and y'all sponsored it. We thank we appreciate that, man. You paid for the you paid for the alcohol. Um happy to do that. Yeah, yeah. People were happy too. So it was a great, a great turnout, great event. And um, so someone on your team, uh, I forgot her name, a Hispanic girl. Uh, what's what's her name? Uh she's on your team.

SPEAKER_01 24:02

Chelsea, although she might have taken offense to this Hispanic because she's definitely black, but she can, yeah, you can you can go whatever you want there. She's she's yeah, yeah. I don't think she knows Spanish. You know what's interesting? Sean, Sean Sean speaks Sean speaks uh speaks Spanish. Chelsea does not, yeah, yeah. So that's a whole, but Chelsea, Chelsea's who you're referring to. Yeah. And Sean, for you guys that weren't there last night, Sean's

Chelsea's tears: being seen as the hardest worker in the industry

SPEAKER_01 24:24

like the whitest guy that's ever existed, and he's out there mr mr. Bilingual over there.

SPEAKER_04 24:29

I loved it. I loved it.

SPEAKER_01 24:31

But Chelsea, yeah, go ahead, go ahead. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 24:33

Micah, you thought she was Mexican, right?

SPEAKER_02 24:35

I did. Did you?

SPEAKER_04 24:36

I did.

SPEAKER_01 24:39

Chelsea, I hope you're listening to this. It was okay.

unknown 24:42

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 24:44

Oh Lord. So so real cool girl. She said something cool. She said when you when you told her about how your business, uh, she it brought her to tears. What why why did it bring her to tears?

SPEAKER_01 24:55

Oh man, I I think a lot of times there's this element within within folks that that do this work that really they feel like they are the nameless and the faceless people in our industry, right? There is there is very little positive recognition, uh, whereas everything that they hear is negative. If they screw something up, they're all they're all hearing it nonstop. But but they really a lot of times don't have the belief that there's somebody who's got their back and who's actually who's actually working to make their lives a little bit better on the labor front. And and I think when we when she first came on with us, you know, she was she was apprehensive, I feel like, you know, like is this is this company actually legit? Like this the first market that they've expanded into, what's this gonna be like? And and so there was a bit of that. She kind of she kind of did take the leap. And and now that it's now that it's proven to be to be something that's help helping her and her family, and that it, you know, one of the biggest things that people one of the most powerful things that people can feel is is when they feel seen, like actually seen as a person and actually on, you know, recognized. And some of the some of the work that these people do is so difficult. And it's like, let's, let's actually, let's hype that up and let's let people know that they are seen for the work they're doing. And uh, so I think that that may be it. She would be able to answer that question more so than I could, but uh, but I I think that that's a lot of it is that we are acknowledging the uh the hard work that's done. And we are we're literally saying our company was built for the servicers more than anything, because we know if we have great servicers, then the host will feel the benefits, the guests will feel the benefits. There will be all these compounding effects, but it starts with doing right by the people who are doing the hardest work in our entire industry.

SPEAKER_04 26:33

And if anybody that uh any host out there knows that they've had to rush over there and do a cleaning because for some reason the a cleaner couldn't make it that day, that's when we really like, oh okay, we we we see what they're we see what's going on here. We we might have been cut cursing them out a little too early. We did they they do a lot of work in this place.

SPEAKER_01 26:52

It's so different when you see it from a when you see it from a computer screen or a click and like hey, get that done. Is that job finished? When we we tell our we tell our administrative team, you know, do not look at just the the the thing goes from not completed to completed and we're just waiting for that to happen. Think about what needs to actually happen for that to for that to go on. There is so much work and sweat and the actual labor is real. And you said it so well, like once once you get into that arena and you've actually been there with the clock ticking and a guest waiting to show up, and there's a lot that needs to happen. And if you don't get it right, you're gonna be on the hook for everything. A lot of that is it's pressure and it's labor and it's fatiguing, and uh, and we shout out the good all the time. We say that you know, that's one of our core values is that we are going to shout out the good. We are going to be very much letting the folks know that they're appreciated, uh, the work that they do. That's why you know the photos thing is great. People get to show off their work via photos, and someone sees those photos and somebody recognizes that. And uh, yeah, it is it's cool to see. And I think Chelsea's also seen too, it's cool to bring other folks into the world of well and good. So she's been able to build a team and she's been able to say, Hey, you know, we when you work with us, you'll see it too. And uh, and so there's that element of the of the folks that are out there that may be not in the right setup, they may be getting screwed over by by having to do all these different things, or they may not be getting the accolades that they deserve. And it's like, yeah, there's a better way.

SPEAKER_04 28:17

I like that. So so one thing also, um, because I mean, we in this industry we come across a rock star cleaner every now and then, you know, by luck, and it's awesome. And the problem is a lot of people start discovering, finding out about this rock star cleaner you got. And the next thing you know, they're doing they're trying to do 25 jobs in one day and they get to your house 30 minutes before check-in. So I guess I they don't have any kind of management and process or you know, something to help them schedule and do things and not try to bite off more than you can they can chew. I assume that you do that for your cleaners where they don't have 20 jobs in one day and they can't get to yours until like 30 minutes before check-in.

SPEAKER_01 28:55

Yeah, that's a big part, is just knowing your teams. And the only way to know your teams is to be local there on site and know that the you know, the cat the capacity of that team. And sometimes people will overestimate their own capacity, and we've gotta be we gotta be watching that and be like, nope, nope, sorry, even though you say you might you might want to, we've got to prove this that you can that you can run before you, you know, you can walk before you run, kind of thing. So yeah, that that is a lot of our business is putting the right the right team there, uh assigning them to the properties, and that includes so much nuance. And one of them being, what is the capacity of the team? What is the actual schedule? Where are they coming from? All those different different aspects is so huge. And we have to get that part right, and we do. And it's it's the you know, it goes back to that's that we obsess over it. So we're literally like sitting there looking at do I have the right person scheduled here and we schedule a week in advance, but then we're looking at it every day to make sure that it still is right based off of that capacity of the team. And I'll I'd say one, I'd say one more thing about that too. Another core value of ours, you know, based off of last year, last time's uh conversation, I always talk about core values, but uh, but one of them is that we operate with margin that brings confidence. So meaning that we do need to not operate on a razor's edge all the time, uh, whether that's the fact that there's a team who's who's right up against the edge or or just right, you know, in general, having enough teams, right? We want to make it to where if somebody does have the flat tire, that we have enough margin to where we can adjust in that situation and send another team. And that's that's one of the benefits because you mentioned the unicorn cleaner. Everybody loves the unicorn cleaner until the unicorn cleaner's back goes out and all of a sudden you don't have the unicorn cleaner anymore. So so yeah, that's margin, margin brings confidence, no question.

Margin brings confidence - no razor's-edge scheduling or unicorn-cleaner risk

SPEAKER_02 30:37

And and like, how do you guys run your operations? Because like I I just started, by the way, I just started my uh my I just onboarded my five units. Um and I I'm uh getting everything sent across, getting all my uh links sent across. How do you how are we able to do you guys like are you guys going to our Slack channel? How do we get you guys to like how do you your does your team communicate with, let's say we already have a team of VAs in place that runs like, you know, saying what needs to be restocked or anything like that? How do you guys coordinate that communication?

SPEAKER_01 31:08

Yeah, yeah. So first I'll be excited to come on in a year from now and talk to you, having been through all that and having seen it all, because I love I love getting the feedback as it's happening and also as it's been going for a while, because it's awesome. But uh yeah, the the the communication happens primarily through our client leads team, which they are on Slack a lot. And so we work with your Slack channels, is is probably the most preferred method. Is like if a team's already got Slack communication happening, that's awesome. And if not, we do have a text line that is set up for our host as well. So our host can text our text line and that goes to all of our client leads, not to one individual, but to our client leads as a group. And same thing with our email. So so the client leads team is the ones, and keep in mind the scheduling is automated. So we're not gonna need to be emailing each other about, hey, there's a there's a checkout here. We know the overall schedule. The communication is more for when there are those variances or when there's something unique that pops up or when there's a question about something specific. But we do like to have our technology be able to automate the scheduling so we don't have to have uh, oh, I'm gonna give another core value goodness. It's that we insist on effective communication, which means that we don't want to over-communicate things. We want it to be where we have systems in place to do the majority of the communication. So then our communication is reserved for those times where there's something that's unique outside of the norm. And that happens. Slack is a great spot, but then our text, our text channel is good too. All with the client leads, and then the client leads will disperse that information across our organization. Awesome.

SPEAKER_04 32:37

Cool. So you only use high-end products, I hear.

SPEAKER_01 32:41

Our products are good. Yeah, and one of the things too is having been having been doing this now for a couple of years, our products keep getting better uh because we're always looking for what is the better product. And so one of the things is we have a partnership with now with public goods soaps, which is uh the highest level of soaps. They're so good. And they their their branding is great, their actual product is awesome. Um, so that's shampoo, conditioner, body wash. Uh, and we're always looking to elevate our products. Standard textile provides our linens. Uh, that's a high quality company as well. There's some things that we look at and we say, hmm, it's really good right now, it's better than any other out there, but we could still elevate it even further. So we're always looking to upgrade uh everything. But what we say is like there's no one star anything. Like we don't do the one star, you know, the one ply toilet paper or something like that. Like that's just not our brand. And it is it is an elevated service because yeah, we we we have to put our our kind of you know confidence level that that it works for for any type of property. And so always always solid, but definitely getting better even as we go. Like we're looking at some products, and we're I'm excited about some of the things that we're introducing. Uh yeah, I could say it. We're we're gonna be doing slippers uh before long, where it's gonna be a pair of slippers for every guest. Like uh what that is one of the things, these are things that move the needle for it's why people like to go to hotels because they feel pampered. And we can provide that. Now, I you can't provide it unless you have a service who's able to provide it, who's able to do it consistently, because you don't want to promise something and not have it. But we know that when we roll that out, which will be before the end of this year, uh, we are going to be putting slip slippers, uh brand new slippers for every guest that stays. And it's just those things are kind of where our service is trending, which is we want to be able to provide that higher level uh guaranteed experience within this industry that people crave when they're when they're traveling.

SPEAKER_04 34:32

Here's something that made me think of that because um our buddy of the friend of the show who couldn't show up last night, Mike Brown. Um, long time ago, when me and him were just acquaintances, we were um we're managed by the same company and they kind of they took care of the cleaning as well, whatever. And and well, Mike Brown called me one day and said, Hey man, do you have do you have a problem? Because he he bought high-end towels, high-end sheets, high-end whatever. But the cleaning lady would take everything off site, wash it, and he his place would end up with the low-end stuff, the Walmart stuff. And he whenever he did inspect his house, he's like, What's this? You know, I didn't, I bought the high-end stuff, and now now she just, you know, she's putting whatever at whatever unit and not keeping track of anything.

SPEAKER_01 35:16

Oh, that's such a good point. This happens so often, and it is just, yeah, yeah. You get you get a host who who feels like they've got it all set, right? Their inventory closet looks amazing, it's all organized. They got all and then they show up a month and a half later and they're like, what happened here? And you know, that that that that is it is a it is a very nuanced, you know, how does that happen? Well, sometimes it can be because a cleaner just straight up takes advantage of you, which is not good, you know, like somebody just taking some stuff and putting in something that's not okay. Um, but a lot of times it's more just the systems aren't great. You know, the cleaner probably didn't even know that this this linens belong to this particular property and all that, which is why I'm such a believer in let's standardize the linens, let's let's make it high-end across the board and uh and know at least that the basics, the sheets, the pillowcases, the towels are all gonna be nice and they're all gonna be the same. And we I love I love customized things, right? I like custom, you know, throw blankets or pillows, things like that, accent pillows. They provide the color and the the personality, but we got to get the basics to be the same and they gotta they gotta be done right.

SPEAKER_04 36:21

Yeah, so it to me it what stands out is like, okay, we're hosts, we kind of get good at getting hosts and getting clients, getting our calendars fulfilled. We're we're worrying about our PMP, we're worrying about our pricing, we're worrying about so many things. We're a management company, we're we're an arbitrager, we're not one thing I we're not a cleaning company. And so I I admit that 100%. I'm not a cleaning company, I don't want to start a cleaning company because but if I did and if I put all 100% into it like you did, okay. Yes, but not if I'm gonna kind of half-assed be like a uh you know a host, uh, you know, hospitality professional plus uh uh cleaning company. I just it's too many hats to wear.

SPEAKER_01 37:04

It's not like hosts can't do it, it's that it's probably not the best usage of the time for them to do it and go out and do it. Because, like, yeah, this is something where if you obsess over it and you really spend a lot of time and energy, you can everybody can figure out the best way to do it. But it's just a matter of like, is that your primary core business? And you mentioned it with the host, the host should be focused on guest uh experience and property acquisitions and all those different things that that hosts should be should be putting their energy towards. But sadly, a lot of them end up halfway running a cleaning company and love and nothing is done well when it's done halfway. And it's just, you know, it needs to be focused across the board. And that's why we say we're not the host, right? Because if we were the host, we would have a problem with focus as well. And we partner with hosts to be able to have them be great at what they do, we will be great at ours. And that is as the industry becomes more professionalized, it does require that that direct focus of one thing.

Deep cleans every six months, batteries during monthly inspections

SPEAKER_01 38:00

You know, we're none of us are superhumans that can do everything at once, and to act like we are is is naive a lot of times. So yeah, it's not like you can't do it if you really were to spend all your energy and attention there, but it's just a matter of whether whether that's the best usage for the energy.

SPEAKER_04 38:14

Now, does well and good do anything on the maintenance front?

SPEAKER_01 38:19

A bit, a bit. Yeah, it's kind of similar to what you were saying with the gift basket thing, where we we want to be able to do it really well. And and that's something that we we we would say overall we don't tackle large maintenance things, but there's a lot of things that we can do that are the small ones that can save a trip from somebody. Uh, take you know the classic example of the the shower curtain fell down. Well, we can we can get that, we can get that taken care of. We can we can deal with uh the putting the batteries into the uh the locks to make sure that you're actually gonna get access locks um happening, light bulbs. Uh those basic things we do, those, and we do them on an a la carte basis. Um, but it's gonna be a lot better value than having to send out a handyman for those really smaller things. Once you get into larger projects, we're generally gonna refer to, hey, let's let's let's get somebody who is a professional handyman service in these larger projects. But there's a lot of things, and you know, we even have some teams that can take on some of those larger projects too. So we always say if we have a solution for something, we're going to present that solution. We're gonna let you know, hey, we you know we can we can either look into this for you or we can do it ourselves. Um, but either way, we're gonna let you know of things, and then we're gonna try to guide towards the best solution, whether that's us or not.

SPEAKER_04 39:28

Now, like for batteries, because it's a huge that's one of the biggest things. Um, what's what do you like when you work with your clients? What's the best way to do it? Do they just leave a have a battery drawer? Do they have it in the we have your own spot for your stuff? But I mean, or do y'all just your cleaners always have a bunch of batteries on them? What do you how do y'all do that?

SPEAKER_01 39:48

We have a once-a month, we have a once-a-month service that that is a that is a specific type of inspection that goes in there with with a teammate who has those items. So basically that's going to be like a one-time thing. So every month they would get they would get done on a scheduled basis, much more than on a checkout basis. And so that's how we do those ongoing items. Uh, air filters is another thing that we've that we've looked into. And those are those are things that we're still, you know, I said it earlier. This is stuff that we're still figuring some of these things out. But the way that we're doing it now is that we we do go in on a scheduled basis to do some of those things that need to be done on a schedule. And those are not the the disposal that that just happened to break. It's more like the things that we know are gonna need to be done, the batteries and things like that. So that's that's the way that we do it now on a scheduled basis, on done during an inspection, but that inspector comes with those items, the batteries, or whatever it may need to be to uh to do that.

SPEAKER_04 40:38

Yeah, filters is big because especially here in Texas, because summertime it's gonna get like 110 degrees outside. Uh, you have a uh clogged up filter, you're gonna get like a $500 electric bill in that one bedroom.

SPEAKER_01 40:49

Ah, you're right from the efficiency perspective alone. That's a good point. Yeah, that's a good point. Arizona, same way.

SPEAKER_04 40:55

And I'll yeah, I'm sorry, I'm hogging up the interview, Micah. You got any questions?

SPEAKER_02 40:59

Oh, keep going, keep going.

SPEAKER_04 41:00

Okay, okay, okay. You mentioned something cool last night, too. Was um, okay, you're of course you'll take a ton of photos, right? Ton of photos before, after, all that stuff. But you said something that I never heard before. You take photos of the appliances. Why is that important?

SPEAKER_01 41:16

Yeah, the inside of every appliance, because there's a lot of times doors behind those things, and you take a picture of the kitchen, it does not show the whole picture of what's inside those things. So we take the picture of inside of every appliance mainly just to show that it's empty, like that in a in a in a strict way. That's that's the best way to do it. Uh it you just you don't want to have the surprise when you open up the the fridge and all of a sudden there's something in there you didn't want, or same thing with the dishwasher, etc. So we open it, we open it and take the picture inside of it just to give more more transparency. Uh, you know, the the closed door thing kind of doesn't tell the whole picture.

SPEAKER_04 41:50

I have another question. I have a lot of questions because this is like the cleaning is like the most important part of this whole freaking business, but people don't admit it, right? Um, and so as I was gonna ask some other stuff, but real quick on this on this note, back to the lone wolf cleaner. Now, why would or would they would they be better off we're

Why lone-wolf cleaners join: no invoicing, fair pay, focused work

SPEAKER_04 42:09

being staying lone wolf and doing it their way or actually working for y'all?

SPEAKER_01 42:14

Yeah, that's something that we talk with with cleaners a ton about, which is you know, what we do is is definitely beneficial to the vast majority of cleaners, you know, whether they have their own business going or they're doing this on the side. Um, either way, there are some major inefficiencies to what they're doing. And so the cleaners that are the best at their job, they really want to focus on doing the clean. And so we set them up for that. We also are paying on a great schedule that is gonna be guaranteed to know that you're getting paid fairly for what you're doing. There's no questions on payments, there's no back and forth of having to send an invoice. Uh, that's what I think. A lot of times the individual cleaners got to be sending out an invoice, then they got to be following up with those clients to make sure they actually got paid for something. And there's a lot of back-end business stuff that honestly, most of the individual, uh, the unicorn lone wolf cleaners, they're so good at what they do, but they also are admittedly not always the best at some of those back end things. So they could be out there crushing it and then still not feeling like they're making the money like they wish they would, or not feeling like they have their ducks in a row from a business perspective. And and we we do help people feel like they're more in control of their business from the perspective of they can see the cash flow in, they can see what their work orders were. It's all very, it's all very encapsulated, much more than, you know, I've got a million different clients that I'm working for, all these different hosts, and I'm trying to navigate it, trying to send invoices, all that stuff. It's all consolidated through one spot. So so yeah, I of course I feel like it's best for those people, but we've seen the cleaners definitely uh they've come to work with us uh for a reason. And it is because we just we help them a lot with those with those logistical things that allow them to focus on what they're great at.

SPEAKER_02 43:54

You know, and that brings you to another question because Steve, you bring a good point. So let's say you do have the cleaner who's alone. But they may have a couple of people under them, but those people, a couple of people under them aren't dead. So with that cleaner, I mean, would you be able to take that cleaner and her team and then kind of train them up to your standards and bring them in and still use them?

SPEAKER_01 44:16

Yeah, totally. So so you're gonna have everybody who is gonna be in our properties, there's gonna be the verified, well and good professional, right? So that's the person who's trained. They have they have the identification showing who they are. But a lot of times they're gonna have teammates that are working with them. And that is totally totally awesome within our within our organization. We are great with that. What we do require, though, is that there is our trained, verified, and compensated professional on site during the service. So so we don't really have it be a case where a team is going to be like our teammate is gonna have multiple amounts of crews that we don't know who they are, and we are then not having them be able to communicate with us, uh, with us in our team. So so that's you know, and our our our a lot of our teams do have like let's say they have two crews or three crews that they're that they're having go to different properties. That totally works. They just have their crew leads make sure that they have the our our Slack to be able to communicate with our with our team, as well as then our breezeway to be able to upload the photos. And so it could be done with larger crews, even within, but it just that we have to be able to communicate with them and and you know our teams communicate in every language. We are able to make sure that there's that there's you know, all of our team that works with anybody on field is able to communicate and be be fully able to uh to have have dialogues with anybody uh in that sense. And that that does help a ton.

SPEAKER_02 45:37

Oh, especially in Texas, heck yeah. I love that.

SPEAKER_01 45:40

Oh, you got to be bilingual in this business. And you know, I'm not myself, but every every one of our corporate support team that's in our field solutions uh department is all bilingual. That is something that is actually absolutely mandatory to have. Um, our our market leaders, like we see that there is the bilingual nature of our business is important, and uh, and we are a proud bilingual company. Like, I don't I don't need to have them, you know, feel like they're not able to be communicating in our company. And a professional should be able to communicate fully uh in in English or Spanish and one day Polish, and we're gonna work to expand that a bit, but we know at least we've got we're we're very very bilingual at this point.

SPEAKER_04 46:17

Now, how do y'all handle the quality

80% of turnovers get a second set of eyes and timestamped Breezeway photos

SPEAKER_04 46:20

control aspect of it? So making sure they're doing a great job.

SPEAKER_01 46:24

Yeah, so that leads to the market leader. That means that yeah, you gotta have an on-site service, and that on-site service has the market leader who is doing inspections and then builds an inspections team. So we are going to have individuals who are doing the inspections uh in what they are doing. So that blue mat that I mentioned earlier, the blue mat has our liquid supplies on it, and so they are both restocking the liquid supplies as well as inspecting the actual home. And so that that happens on the back of the clean. So after the clean is done, um, we we inspect about 80% of our cleans get a secondary person going into the property. There's some that don't get it, whether it's a same-day check-in that the guest is trying to get in early, or there's some unique circumstances where there's not going to be an inspector. But over 80% of our properties are having a second set of eyes go in there. So our quality control happens primarily through that. But also, we have a processing team who is looking through every one of these photos to make sure that they're that everything is looking in the way that our standards are. And photos don't always tell the entire story, but they do tell a story, right? They are going to give you an indication as to whether something's really off or not. But I I am very much not an OR guy. I don't think you should have a you know an on-site inspection or a processing uh QC. It's both. We have both, and I'm an and person, use them both, and we need to have we need to have those, and we do.

SPEAKER_02 47:42

No, I this one question asked about photos as well. Mike, you know how it is dealing with Airbnb sometimes. Do you guys have timestamp photos that come back to us? So if we have to protect ourselves from Airbnb or guest.

SPEAKER_01 47:54

Yeah, that's one of the benefits of Breezeway. Breezeway does timestamp everything, and you can see all of it through the work order that Breezeway has created on the day of. And and yeah, and you know, another thing too is like the cleaners have to take the pictures within the app, so they can't upload photos that are older photos, potentially, things like that. So we we've really tried to make sure to know that the photos that were taken were taken that day, they are associated with that particular work order, that particular address. It's all there. Breezeway helps us. We're the best at helping uh host get claims, you know, taken care of because they're able to have all the documentation, the invoicing, all that stuff is there. And we know too, Airbnb is wanting that faster, they want it all right away, etc. So we we work in that world for sure, and our technology does help us there.

SPEAKER_02 48:36

Well, and this is Breezeway. So wow, that's something wow.

SPEAKER_01 48:40

Hold on. And I was I was gonna mention Breezeway is a great, uh, great uh, you know, they're they're a large company within this space, and we do pay for the Breezeway side. So our hosts do not have to pay for the Breezeway, they get the access to Breezeway, but they don't have to, it's not something that they have to pay for their own login for that. They they they they log in via our our login, and so they're able to get the view of their properties alone, and that does help help for them to not have to go out and get a new technology stack, you know, they don't have to stack something else when you get well and good, in essence.

SPEAKER_03 49:10

I like that.

SPEAKER_01 49:12

We got enough bills, we got enough recurring monthly bills that hosts have to deal with, so yeah, we we take that one.

SPEAKER_04 49:17

Now, now, would you consider your turnovers deep cleans or are they just a turnover clean?

SPEAKER_01 49:24

So we have a deep clean schedule, so we will do the deep cleans once every six months. That does happen within our schedule, and you know, the deep cleans are gonna be those those times where a great example, the best example of what a deep clean is versus a standard clean, the cabinets. So we are going to organize kitchen cabinets on every standard clean to make sure that they're presented well and they look nice, but we do not take all of the contents out of the cabinets each time and wipe down the entire cabinet and reset them each time. We're gonna have them organized on the standard, but on the deep clean, we are going to take all the items out of the cabinets. We're gonna be doing the full internal thing. So that's a good example of where a deep clean doesn't make sense. It would be silly to do that on every turnover, to be honest. Like if you did that, you'd be not being efficient, but it does need to be done on occasion. And so that's that's where our deep clean once every six months is the way that we do that. And it's it's worked well. There's also you could have a deep clean upon request or deep clean based off of a necessity. So a host can say, Hey, give can I have more deep cleans? Or they we could also come in and recommend one based off of maybe there was a long-term stay that really was gnarly and it requires that. And so we will we will be in communication on that. But a minimum of once every six months is when we do our deep cleans.

SPEAKER_04 50:33

Nice, nice. Now, now I was gonna ask, um now you mentioned markets you're getting into. Now, what stands out to me sometimes we talk to hosts in certain markets, like we had one in uh New Hampshire, right? And they're saying just labor is ridiculous over there, you know, or whatever city. Does that keep y'all from operating in certain cities because labor is hard to find and super expensive?

SPEAKER_01 50:58

I I would say the expensive part, you know, every lab, every market is going to be priced based off of its its individual market. So we do we do factor that a bit. And so I think the harder the market, uh, the more likely that our service would actually be a big benefit because we're gonna we're gonna have cleaners that may not be wanting to do the Airbnb cleanings this the way that it's always been. I think that that again leads to our pool is a little bit bigger because we do the off-site laundering and the guest essentials are provided, things like that. Um would I say that I would stay away from particular markets based off of the labor market, the labor climate? Uh I I would say this. I go into we go we look at markets where we have definite market leader presence. So we have to have some sort of an on-site uh feeling of like there's there's going to be somebody who can build a team here for sure. Um, but I don't shy away from a market, I would say, because it's harder to build the labor, because there's there there are good people in every market. They might need to be paid a little bit more, honestly. Like that might need to be a factor within a, you know, you look at New Hampshire is a great example. Northeast is more expensive in a lot of ways. Um, and so we just we have to account for that. But uh, but I don't think that that limits us from being able to serve there. I think we just have to be understanding of each market is different, and there's nuance to each one. Travel is another example. I mean, if somebody's sitting an hour in traffic, we gotta we gotta make sure that we're that we know that that's that's part of part of the the area.

SPEAKER_04 52:21

So so okay, now we're gonna go off topic a little bit. We talk a lot about cleaning. Um one thing that that stood out, you you and and you've got a lot of presence in Arizona, right? Um, what the hell happened during the Super Bowl?

Arizona Super Bowl collapse: 4,000 new listings flooded the market

SPEAKER_01 52:35

Ah, yeah. I mean, you know, any time where there's this crazy expectations within an area, everybody floods to it. I mean, and we saw this the most with with Arizona and the Super Bowl coming, and there's been a huge just conversation about the fact you can get $10,000 a night for a short-term rental there. So you had not only regular short-term rental operators, but midterm rental operators and individuals who had their own houses, they started to say, well, wait, if you can get $10,000 a night, I'm gonna put my house up for on Airbnb. And there was there were over 4,000 additional short-term rentals that were added for that particular weekend. And it saturated the market, it flooded the market so much that the and the other thing, so so that really hurt the local host because that you know those those big events were it was it's just complicated, especially for management companies that were promising their owners that they were gonna get these big bookings. That looked really, really gnarly. And I think, you know, to that point, I wrote an article about this that said, you know, there was a lot of focus on there was a lot of focus on the short-term rental industry over the short or over the Super Bowl weekend. And focus is maybe exactly what we need. Like the management companies, they need to be focused on getting their bookings, and maybe maybe uh partnering with Well and Good would have been a better move for them. So they wouldn't be as focused on this nuanced labor or things like that. They're they're more focused on getting bookings. That's that's something that we saw that people didn't really uh you know always have in place. And our hosts, we saw were were a lot more focused on getting the bookings, and it did help them for sure. But man, it was tough. It was tough across the the daily rates went down a lot lower. And and we'll we just I think overall, major expectations are always tough to manage. And uh, and the other last thing I would say on the Super Bowl, we found that for big events, for corporate events, a lot of times Airbnb, and Micah, you talked about this last night. Airbnb is not always the channel in which a lot of times corporate travel, corporate travel people are going. And the Super Bowl, the the fit the people that are coming for the Super Bowl are oftentimes booked through a company or booked through something like that. And that leads to you have to be diversified in your booking channels. And I know y'all preach that so much, and it's just it's it was seen very evidently uh within within that weekend.

SPEAKER_02 54:54

I love that you brought that up because that's what I'm thinking. Okay, Airbnb is such an easier, easy barrier to entry. So if all these people know the Super Bowl's coming, yeah, they'll just throw up any old room, house, whatever, market's just saturated. You know, and back in 2017, you could do that because they did it in Houston. You had people making $10,000, $12,000 on a weekend in Houston with any old house. And so that that being diversified and having a brand where I was telling people last night, oh, call somebody. Like if you know, you know how many executives you could have called that will probably need a whole house for their team? It's just so many opportunities. And you know, sometimes that Airbnb thing makes us lazy.

SPEAKER_01 55:35

It does. And you know what? Also, we know Airbnb helps is the person who just put their property online. So you had all these people. So they all got joked juiced up into the algorithms, the 4,000 additional ones. And so, yeah, the existing short-term rentals there that have been around for a while, they had the ones that were diversified got the bookings, the ones that were not did not. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 55:55

Now let's talk some business stuff because uh well, in a sense, because um I want to know how you learned this. I mean, how you had I mean, did you get down and dirty and you was scrubbing toilets and you were turning over

Two months of test cleans and the flow that starts every room

SPEAKER_04 56:06

beds, you was doing you get did you did you get hands-on training to learn like these processes to teach data cleaners?

SPEAKER_01 56:13

Yeah, in a short answer, yes. Uh, so it was it was 2020. I was uh it was it was interesting because the the pandemic happened, which which was actually ended up being a perfect incubator for us to really learn the systems and the processes. So we were out there in Arizona. We did about two months of test cleans before we ever did any service. And I was out there myself in the field doing the work in in and learning the cleans, learn getting uh getting working with our initial market leader there in Arizona. And I've done I've done a lot of cleaning in my previous uh career with with I had a cleaning company in college, and I that was primarily me at the start doing doing a lot of the labor. And so I know that space, but I didn't know I know cleaning, I guess you'd say. I didn't know the specifics of short-term rentals. And so what we developed was like a flow. So, what is the actual best flow for a cleaner to go into? What's the thing that you should start to do? What's the what's the first step? What's the second step? So when our cleaners get trained, they're trained based off of like a flow that we are confident in because we did this a lot in person, watching it. So it would be both me doing it, other times me just observing and seeing, okay, this worked well or this didn't. And yeah, I'm very much a believer in you gotta you gotta know anything. Warren Buffett talks about this all the time. He doesn't invest in things he doesn't know, and uh, and I I am the same way. I don't I don't start a company unless I feel very confident and I know exactly how it should be done. And I'm also I've done it myself, and so it's not so much theory, but it is reality. Uh I've cleaned some toilets, man. I've cleaned some toilets.

SPEAKER_04 57:39

So when so when getting in there, getting down and dirty, and learning these, you know, hands-on, what were some of the surprises, man? I mean, I mean, something did you like assume, okay? We always start at the bathroom, we should start it finishing the kitchen or vice. What were some of the surprises that that you found?

SPEAKER_01 57:54

Oh, good question. I think that people would save, they would, they would, they would mainly clean room by room, um, which is which is a terrible way to do it because it here's why. You could be having a ticking time bomb happening in the third bedroom that you haven't even been to. And it's now it's now 2:30 in the afternoon, you have not been, and you open up and oh my gosh, we've got all kinds of problems, right? So we are huge on go into the property, get the entire everything dirty out. So I I can give you a little bit of our flow. It's that we we remove all of the trash and all the dirty linens first in every room. So we are we are in in every room, understanding what it is, because then you get a real idea of what you need to do. Most of the time, cleaners are going in and they are starting in the room this way, and then they're moving to that room, and they're not they're they're going into the room once and then they're leaving it, and that's it. It is not the most efficient way to do it, even though it seems that way, you leave yourself with potential problems in that other room and you don't know how how much to account for that. So I it's huge to get a whole idea of what you have going on before you start the service entirely. And the best thing there too is you're getting the dirty out. You don't want to be cleaning in a dirty, you don't want to have a clean room in a dirty room right next to each other. It's like get get the dirty, you don't get the linens out. Get the you don't want to ever miss uh characterize a linen, be like, Oh, I thought this was a clean one when it was actually a dirty one, things like that. It's like get everything out, give yourself a blank slate, and then come in with your clean stuff.

SPEAKER_04 59:19

So you're like surveying the battlefield.

SPEAKER_01 59:21

Correct. It helps, it helps, and then you know what you've got here.

SPEAKER_04 59:26

That's interesting, man. Because I mean, you know, just cleaning at your own house. You I'm gonna do one room at a time. Room at a time. I got I got clean in ADD.

Biggest cleaning mistake: too much chemical makes sticky floors

SPEAKER_04 59:34

If I start here, start here, start here. I'm never gonna finish my house, right? So we just do one room at a time, but it's totally different in the turnover world.

SPEAKER_01 59:41

And it's mainly about assessing it. So you know, you do clean a bit room by room, but after you've assessed the whole thing and gotten the dirty, the dirty out entirely across the across the entire home.

SPEAKER_04 59:51

And and okay, you kind of already answered it, but uh that my next question was what are the some of some of the biggest um cleaning mistakes that you that you've seen?

SPEAKER_01 1:00:01

Um the biggest cleaning mistakes using too much chemicals is number one on on floors. That's that's always the biggest one. People think that more chemicals is better. It needs it needs it needs elbow grease. That's what it needs. It needs friction, it needs you to push press down. Don't don't think the chemicals are gonna save your way out of this. And so that's definitely the biggest one. The sticky floors are not because the floor is dirty, it's because people use way too much uh chemical and didn't rinse that that floor and make sure it's buffed before they left.

SPEAKER_04 1:00:27

The two number one most complaint about things from guests is the the smell is too strong when they get in there, the fabuloso or whatever they fabuloso or this the floors are sticky, and it's not like you said, and then that's the cleaner was swear of I cleaned those floors, blah blah blah blah blah. And but maybe they put too much chemical, like you said, and the floors need to be dried.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:48

You can't leave just because everything's wet, and so a lot of cleaners love the idea of everything wet when you're leaving, right? The floors are wet. No, the floors need to be dry when you leave. You need to be able to walk on the floor. So that means taking your actual mop and making sure it's dry enough to where you can buff it. Like a buffed surface is the ultimate clean surface, not just sloshing a bunch of uh water and chemicals on it.

SPEAKER_04 1:01:09

Now, what okay, going back to now the real business part, what what things have you learned? I mean, is this the well this ain't the first is this the first business you said you ran a business uh cleaning business in college, right?

SPEAKER_01 1:01:20

I had a cleaning company in college, then I had a service company that serviced foreclosed homes across the Midwest uh after that. So we did we did like uh foreclosed repairs in maintenance on foreclosed homes, yeah. So this is I guess your third major business, third major business, yep, with some with some involvement in some others, yes.

SPEAKER_04 1:01:35

Okay, let's talk, let's talk some business shop. What what are some um things you've learned being on your third business on how to do things you know correctly?

SPEAKER_01 1:01:45

Yeah, I think um you know I I've been in the service business my whole life, and so with service, I think you cannot overemphasize the the major human part of it. You have to have human connection, you have to be doing things with the people in the first and foremost uh side of it. So I know that sounds all cliche, but it is kind of everything. It's like you can't just try to rule from your ivory tower of you know, sitting up there and having all your people, you got to really feel like you're connected to them. They've got to feel like they're connected to you. Culture is everything. Um but then I I think if you're talking like building teams, there is so much about diversity, it is everything, and diversity is one of the most, one of the most overused and under actually accomplished uh things in our world right now. We all talk about diversity and we we we a lot of times get it wrong. We want diversity of thought. We want we want diversity in every way. I want diversity of age. Age is such a good thing. Get people who have some experience, get people who are maybe coming from it from a totally different diversity of life perspective, diversity of background, everything about diversity is something that I just feel like in a service company, you've got to have it. If you have a bunch of you, I say this all the time, like if it's a bunch of Jonathan, we're screwed. Like truly, like we are screwed. We have got to have diversity from every perspective, and that means more than than a lot of times what we what we deem it as in today's society, which I I'm all for diversity of ethnicities. Absolutely. We need that that as well, but it's not the only type of diversity that is needed.

SPEAKER_04 1:03:15

No, no, what are the some of the the biggest mistakes

Business mistakes: ignoring accounting from day one

SPEAKER_04 1:03:19

a business owner can make in their business?

SPEAKER_01 1:03:23

Probably not having the money part figured out, not having the business, the back, the back ends, you know, the accounting side. Uh, you know, a lot of times people are good at doing the work and they're really bad at running the business from the actual things. We're not a lot of times entrepreneurs aren't accountants and they're not they're not having that stuff uh done. So you've got to really make sure that you have a plan for that. And the plan needs to start on day one, not not once you've gotten larger. And so some of those things are the mistakes that I see people make is just they go into it and they're very good at at you know putting up gutters, right? So they're like, okay, because I can put up gutters, I can be in business doing gutters. And it's like there is so much business stuff that you've got to know and you've got to be great at. And and you got to learn, you know, if we are in an age, everybody can get a college degree if they just go on YouTube. I mean, you can literally YouTube your way, you can listen to this podcast and you can learn a whole lot about business. And like you can educate yourselves and everybody can do it. It's a great time to be in business because the information is no longer hidden in some college classroom, it's everywhere.

SPEAKER_04 1:04:22

I like that. Are you are you a fan of the profit first method?

SPEAKER_01 1:04:27

Whoo! I love the profit first method. I have not read the book. And so my sister got me, and she's like, You got to read this book. This thing's incredible. So I am I am aware of it. I it's on my list of books to read. But uh in short, I I like the concept. I think that it definitely like there is nuance to everything. So I'm all for you know, you always want to take information and put it through the filter of, you know, and say, okay, that is something that definitely is going to shift my philosophy, but you never want to swing pendulums in that sense. And so I think that they can certainly be helpful, though. No question. A lot of times people ask people they're paying or themselves. I I get the philosophy, it definitely makes a lot of sense.

SPEAKER_04 1:05:04

Now, Ken, I'm sorry, I'm just asking a million questions.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:06

That is, I think, yeah, go ahead.

SPEAKER_04 1:05:08

Go ahead.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:09

No, no, you no, no, no, I'm not gonna say what I was gonna say. I mean, I should, I should, I should probably do a little problem first myself. I haven't made any money off this company, so I can probably have done it myself. Sometimes, but because of that, that's where I look and I say, I am all about that, but I'm also, you know, there is sometimes an element when you're looking to scale a company and you're growing, there are there are some things that do need to be factored into growth, you know, and that's that's not always taking every dollar immediately.

SPEAKER_04 1:05:37

Okay. Maybe my Micah can help you with that, help you put some money in your pocket. What's he doing, Micah? Why isn't he why isn't he have the money in his pockets?

SPEAKER_02 1:05:44

Ah, profit first, man. That's the answer.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:48

I'm all for it. You know, I think I think again, you get you've got to have sustainability is everything. And if you do if you know, I'm a Henry Ford guy, which Henry Ford said the company should make what the company should make. It should be no more, it should be no less. And that is such a big, big thing. If you're taking too much, you're being greedy, you're gonna go out of business because you can't, you know, you're not having that. If you're not taking enough, then you're gonna go out of business because you don't have money to operate. So, like, I am very big on that. That philosophy is there, and so greed has no place in business, but also uh lack of profit has no place in business, too, because you're just gonna go out of business at that point. So I'm definitely in agreement that both have to be there.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:25

Yep.

SPEAKER_04 1:06:26

I love that and now another one more question. Do you think a business can can survive or can run uh debt-free? Is that possible?

SPEAKER_01 1:06:39

Uh depending on the type of the type of business, I think there's a lot of different types of businesses out there. Um I I think that most most great companies have leverage

Can a business run debt-free? Service models vs. leverage

SPEAKER_01 1:06:49

debt. So I I do think that there's it's rare to find a large company who is making a lot of impact in their industry without without using the right type of debt. But could it happen? Yeah, yeah, you could for sure. Especially if I mean what what type of money does the founder have? You know, is the founder putting in his own money or something like that? You know, there's nuance there for sure.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:08

You know what? I'm happy you brought that up because I think and I'm I'm gonna bring it back to short-term rentals. I think the easiest way to run a debt-free short-term rental business is through management.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:19

Don't have to don't have to put up a lot. Yep, yep. I hear you.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:22

Yeah, it's service-based, like a lot of service-based businesses. You can be debt-free if you're just providing a service, that that's like the easiest way.

SPEAKER_04 1:07:33

Nice, nice. Um, yeah, man, we've been talking for over an hour now, man. We got a lot of good info from you. Uh, your company sounds amazing, and we're happy you're finally here to uh the Dallas area. And Mike's already jumping on board, so Mike is on board with it. It must be good, right?

SPEAKER_02 1:07:50

Yes, sir. I'm loving it, I'm loving the onboarding team. Uh, they they have already been coordinating with my VA, Zyra. So they uh they're getting everything set up. And uh, I know you got a Mavs game to catch. I think look, I think they find him 35k for his last gesture for his money. Really? But he's playing though. That's good, that's good. I think he's playing, yeah. Because I think he's got one more tech, and then he's gett suspended. We gotta keep old Luke out of trouble.

SPEAKER_04 1:08:16

We gotta rile him down here a little bit, yeah. Yeah, my goodness. Well, where can people find you, my brother? And if they say live that thrive sent me, they get a little something, something.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:26

So that's yes, that's big. So uh we are at wellinggood.pro, both on our Instagram, which is at well and good.pro or online, www.well and good.pro. So well and good.pro is all you need to know to find us. And when you do submit an estimate on our website for any property, uh, if you use the live let thrive uh where it says it's gonna say, where did you get referred by? Live let thrive. If you put that in, that's gonna get you half off of your setup cost for your property. And that setup cost is all the linens, uh the guest essentials, things like that. Uh the setup cost is very minimal to start with, but you can get it half off uh if you use this, and that's a great deal for everybody who's listening here and was there last night.

SPEAKER_02 1:09:08

Yes, sir. We're gonna go ahead and we will have that in the show notes. And be sure to uh click that subscribe button below and yeah, check out the show notes so you guys can get that offer.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:19

It's been a pleasure, gentlemen. I love seeing you last night, meeting in person, and uh I love what you do in the industry and helping out a lot of hosts. We saw that evident last night by the people who are actually there, and just your your impact is really great. So thanks for having me on.

SPEAKER_02 1:09:32

Oh, yeah, and thanks for coming, man. Good stuff, right?

SPEAKER_04 1:09:36

Take care, go Mavs.

SPEAKER_02 1:09:38

Thanks. No Lakers, but yes. Uh all right, see ya. Thanks. All right, man. That was Jonathan, John Wick, and uh Jonathan. But yeah, man, that was awesome. I'm happy I'm getting onboarded. Um, I love the whole concept of okay, I no longer have to worry about supplies, uh, no longer have to be on this cleaner because man, I'm firing two cleaners today. So it's been hell of a hell of a day. But yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:10:11

You you'll what do they say? You'll get as um you could be as successful as as if you can solve problems, right? You'll be successful and you'll be wealthy if you could help solve other people's problems. And this is by far, we don't talk about it, don't get the glamour, you know. I'm saying, don't get the clicks, but the the cleanings and turnovers, man. That is probably the the the hardest part to perfect in our industry.

SPEAKER_02 1:10:36

It is, man. And then especially and the one thing I love about it, they're turnovers more, but look at what you don't have to do. Ordering linens, supplies, you cut that cost, and it's just in the cleaning fee, man. I I love that. And you could even uh kind of manipulate the Airbnb algorithm a little bit and just make it a management fee so they don't even see it.

SPEAKER_04 1:11:00

And the number one cost it saves you is having to think about all this shit. That's you can say, Oh, I can handle this, I can put all my systems in place, I can do this and do that, and make a special thing for the cleaners to send this. I but how what's that pulling you away from? It's pulling you away from finding more clients, finding more properties, and getting more profits, right? So I mean, yeah, you might figure out the cleaning thing, but it might take 50% of your your work day to figure it out. Why not let that do it?

SPEAKER_02 1:11:28

There you go, man. I love it. So I will be giving y'all an update on how it's going once I get uh fully onboarded. They do my first cleaning on Monday, so let's go.

SPEAKER_04 1:11:39

Well, where can people find us, Michael Man?

SPEAKER_02 1:11:42

Find us IG at Live Let Thrive. Send us the email, livelet thrive at gmail.com. If you're on iTunes, make sure you rate us, leave us a good review, or a bad one if you hate us. But hey, we'll just probably laugh at you. Hate is gonna hate. Yeah, haters gonna hate. We'll probably laugh at you. But make sure to hit that subscribe button if you're on YouTube. Um, and yeah, thank y'all for listening to us for the people that came out last night. It was an honor. Thank y'all for coming out. I couldn't believe we had 98 signups, only about 50 showed up, but there was another meetup going on at the same time. But yeah, thank y'all for being like listeners. We can keep continuing to bring on strong guests that are in the industry. And uh we're gonna start making it out to some of these events because we did miss uh with STR WealthCon. So we're gonna start making out to some events, LLT style.

SPEAKER_04 1:12:27

Hey, my wife's making some of these hats. If you have a company that you want to make, you know uh Micah's always preaching the um uh your brand, yeah, strong your brand is. So my wife can help you make some some hats and t-shirts. She's on that cricket machine hard, bro.

SPEAKER_02 1:12:41

Let's go.

SPEAKER_04 1:12:43

All right, man. See ya.

SPEAKER_02 1:12:44

We are out.

unknown 1:12:46

Peace.

SPEAKER_02 1:12:47

Later.

SPEAKER_00 1:12:48

Thank you for tuning in to this week's episode of Live Let Thrive. Be sure to tune in next week for all the latest in the world of Airbnb and all that entails. Bye-bye.