Cold open

SPEAKER_00 0:00

Welcome to Live Let Thrive, a podcast about the Airbnb life, the share economy, and everything in between. Here are your hosts, Micah and Steve.

SPEAKER_01 0:11

Hello, hello, hello. And welcome back to another exciting episode of Live Let Drive.

SPEAKER_04 0:22

What is up, Micah?

SPEAKER_02 0:23

Man, I'm chilling, Stevie Stacks. How you doing?

SPEAKER_04 0:26

It's been a minute, huh? Yes, it has. It's been forever since we've done this. We didn't do one last week, and you were out of town.

SPEAKER_02 0:32

Yeah, yeah. I was in good old Memphis. Yeah, I was out of town doing some Airbnb exploration.

SPEAKER_04 0:36

So, yeah, that's a tax write-off right there.

SPEAKER_02 0:40

Yes, sir. Yes, sir. Everywhere I go, I'm doing Airbnb.

SPEAKER_04 0:44

Winkity Wink exploration. Uh short-term rentals, baby. Um, there you go. So welcome back, everybody, to your favorite Airbnb VRBO, short-term, mid-term, long-term rental podcast in the world coming at you from Fort Worth in Arlington, Texas.

Tim Hubbard introduces 50 properties across US, Brazil and Colombia

SPEAKER_01 1:03

Man, who we got today, Stevie Stacks.

SPEAKER_04 1:05

What episode is this, by the way?

SPEAKER_01 1:07

Episode two. Is it 260?

SPEAKER_02 1:11

No way.

SPEAKER_04 1:13

It's up there, yeah. You can tell we're prepared, right, Tim?

SPEAKER_05 1:16

Yeah, all good. I do the same thing. I do the same thing.

SPEAKER_04 1:20

Anyways, Michael's while Michael looks that up. I'm gonna introduce Mr. Tim Hubbard to the podcast. Tim Hubbard is host of the Short Term Rental Riches Podcast. That's how you say it. Short-term rental riches.

SPEAKER_05 1:32

That's it.

SPEAKER_04 1:33

That's a lot of um alliteration right there. I love it. Uh, and he owns around 50 and manages another 25 or so, I assume, short-term rentals in multiple markets in the US and a couple outside of the US and Brazil and Colombia. And yeah, you're gonna get into it today, baby, because that's what you wrote on the thing, and that's what I read. And now let's get into it, bro. And you're living in Brazil right now. How the hell does Brazil?

SPEAKER_05 2:02

Yeah, can't complain. I it's one of my favorite places in the world, so uh, you know, I was I've traveled a lot. That's how I kind of I guess got into short-term rentals in a back, a weird back-end way, you know. I was staying in them for a long time and I was investing in real estate with traditional rentals, long-term rentals. I used to work as a commercial broker too, uh, doing investments. And then one day I just realized, gosh, these long-term rentals are not making that much money. And these short-term rentals that I'm staying in, traveling everywhere. I was looking up the cost of some of them, you know, as I was traveling around to cities, and I'm like, gosh, these things are way better. And so I started switching properties over and uh haven't stopped. That's kind of been the journey.

SPEAKER_04 2:49

Yeah, James, James is the one that said, Hey, this guy, you need to get this guy in your show, he'd be great for your show, right?

SPEAKER_05 2:54

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 2:55

So James is James Guzman, Guzman of uh of the uh borderless podcast. And and it's funny, I was talking to my buddy the other day, and this is it's perfect timing that you're hopping on because I have a buddy, he's like he he loves Europe, he loves England, he's and he's he lives here in Texas, and he's like, Man, I'm just gonna I'm gonna put in my visa and and go over there and live over there and work in in England and stuff. And and I was and it's been going on a few months now. And I asked him, how's that visa thing going? He's like, Oh, well, uh, it's going super slow. Uh, they're really, you know, a lot of people don't gonna hire somebody unless they have their work visa yet. And I was like, but dude, why do you need to do all that? Why don't you just move over? Why don't you just get paid here, you know, do something here and then live wherever you want? Why do you have to go assimilate to their, you know, to to their laws and get their passport and get their everything, you know, why or be a citizenship? And and he didn't really have a good answer. He said, I don't know, pension or whatever the whatever that is anymore. But uh, so I was like, I said, I need you, I showed, I showed him, you know, James Guzman and and all these people from from the digital nomads that that do make their money, US dollars, and live wherever the hell they want in the world and and financial freedom, you know, live live somewhere really cheap and make US dollars. That's that's the dream, right?

SPEAKER_05 4:14

Yeah, you know, and we're we're kind of in uh, you know, if we're American citizens, we we kind of got it pretty good. I mean, we we can virge we can work virtually easier than we ever have been able to. And the US dollar is super strong right now, so it goes really far in a lot of places around the world, and uh yeah, I mean, we're we're in a virtual world these days.

SPEAKER_02 4:38

Awesome. So uh, so you've got a whole bunch of properties. You said you own 50 and then you manage another 25. So you're 50. What's that portfolio look like? Is it houses, condos, multifamilies, and then where are they located?

SPEAKER_05 4:54

Yeah, so um I started in California, that's where I'm

Memphis portfolio: over 40 properties in midtown areas

SPEAKER_05 4:58

from originally. So I have some properties in California, and then I heard you mention Memphis. Actually, that's where I went to next. And so I have quite a few properties in Memphis. Um, and then Oklahoma City and down here in Brazil, and then really excited. We're I'm actually building a small community in Colombia uh of short-term rentals right now, and so we're it's it's it's moving along, it's it's Latin, Latin uh pace of life, you know. But uh I'm hoping the next 18 months that we're kind of finishing that up. So that'll be really cool.

SPEAKER_02 5:34

Now, for my own selfish question, I have to ask. Yeah, talking about Steve had a meetup last night, um, and we were talking about Memphis. Do you have any short-term rentals in Memphis?

SPEAKER_05 5:44

Yeah, yeah, I have like uh over 40.

SPEAKER_02 5:48

Oh, yeah, that's a perfect time for this podcast. So, how how is you and how you how are you liking that market?

SPEAKER_05 5:55

Um, I started there in 2017 when I got my first property. Uh, and it's still it's still working well for me.

$250K to $400K single-family homes with FedEx and Ford anchors

SPEAKER_05 6:04

I I like Memphis because it's an affordable city and people are moving to affordable places. And so, and you know, Memphis is interesting because it's an affordable city. People are moving there just because it's got a decent population. There's there's you know, FedEx is there, it's got a lot of good employment. They're building, I think Ford's building like a six billion dollar plant right right outside of Memphis. They've got a ton of medical, so there's a lot of good stable jobs there that are going to keep people there. But then it also has this interesting tourism side with Beale Street, you know, it's the home of the blues, Elvis Presley, people come from all over the world still to see Elvis' home, you know. So to me, places like that that are affordable and have a tourism component are a win-win. Can be, I should say.

SPEAKER_04 6:54

Uh Beale Street is that the um bachelorette capital of the world right now.

SPEAKER_05 7:00

I'm not sure. I know that uh Nashville is really really high up there. Yeah, it might be Nashville.

SPEAKER_04 7:07

But Beale Street, man, I heard it's pretty cool. I heard it's pretty hopping.

SPEAKER_05 7:11

The the live music there is just it gives me chills every time I see it. It's I mean, there are incredible, incredible musicians there. So it's definitely definitely lively, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 7:21

Uh we'll see we'll see the the the only thing that's not better over there is the is the barbecue. It's better here in Texas, right? Uh no, it's not Mike has started that controversy, controversy last week.

SPEAKER_05 7:37

It's it's defin both places definitely have some great barbecue, I gotta say. Uh and um I've got a lot of friends in Texas there too, and it's always like, you know, you always gotta hit the favorite barbecue joints. Uh Memphis has the barbecue fest, if you've ever heard of that. And that's like an annual festival specifically for barbecue, and people literally fly in their barbecue equipment from Europe and all over the world. I mean, it's real, it's a real serious week. And so I've had some pretty good barbecue there before, yeah, as well.

SPEAKER_02 8:11

Definitely is, but oh, Steve.

SPEAKER_05 8:14

So, what made you leave the country? Well, I I've always loved traveling. I'd probably been to around 80 countries or so, and I've kind of I've lived in quite a few of them, and I kept going back to the ones that I liked. And Colombia was one of those places, and Brazil was one of those places. And fortunately, my rental portfolio has been in a place that allowed me to kind of live wherever I wanted and have a good team in place, and yeah, so I guess that that's it. I just really enjoyed it. I like the pace of life, I like the Latin lifestyle, and you know, it's fun learning different languages, and uh it's just different, and the scenery, and the scenery, and the scenery is good too.

SPEAKER_04 9:01

So so of course so so when you do go like this, you love you know, obviously Brazil, you love Colombia. Um, do you end up do you end up um buying there or do you just rent there? I mean, what do you do? What do you do in that?

SPEAKER_05 9:17

Yeah, so I've I've bought in both. I'm actually I'm in Brazil here right now, an apartment in a condo that I bought, and I'm leaving here on Monday, so just a couple days, and uh going back to Colombia. And when I go back to Columbia, I'll be renting this out. And Colombia, I've been going there for a long time, so maybe seven or eight years. And I guess I would call it home for the last five or so, because I probably spent more time there than anywhere else. And I bought there in 2018 and just sold that place to sort of roll it into this development that I'm doing now uh with a partner. So bought in both places, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 9:55

And that was the only way to buy down there. Is it cash only? Is there's no financing?

SPEAKER_05 10:00

It is, unfortunately.

$200K Brazil condo generating $50K annually after $75K renovation

SPEAKER_05 10:02

Yeah. Um, although, you know, if you have investments in the US and you do a cash out refinance, most of the time there's nothing stopping you from using that money for whatever you want, right? And so that's what I've done in the past. I've done cash out refinances with other properties, and I use the money where I see it's it fits best.

SPEAKER_02 10:23

Okay. Now that that's very interesting, right there. And like, what's the average home price in a place like Brazil to get a good return as a on an STR?

SPEAKER_05 10:32

It's all all across the board. Um, gosh, Brazil's massive. There's over 200 million people here, and it and it's also one of the places with unfortunately the biggest income inequalities. So you have some really rich people here, and then you have some really poor people. This city that I'm in, uh Bonniadio Camboru, it's called. It's in like the very southern part, uh, near Florianopolis. If you heard Florianopolis, and it has some of the most expensive real estate in the country, as far as I know. Uh they're also building the tallest building in South America. If you haven't seen it before, this this place is amazing. It kind of looks like Miami. It's right on right on the ocean, really tall, huge, tall buildings. Uh, and the real estate here is expensive. But what I found, I'm a real estate investor, so I'm always looking for opportunities. And they're building brand new skyrise buildings here with apartments starting in the millions of dollars, you know, really expensive. Uh, American, you know, US dollars. But my condo, for example, I bought for 200,000. I put about 75,000 into it renovating it. So I guess I'm in a little less than 300. Uh, and it rents it rents really well. Um, it is more seasonal here, but I would if I would say if I were to rent it out for the whole year, it would probably make around 50 grand or something like that.

SPEAKER_03 11:54

Okay.

SPEAKER_05 11:54

Um, so pretty darn, pretty darn good return, right? It's a good return for $200,000.

SPEAKER_04 12:00

Make it $50 paid off in four years. Well, plus the $75 you put into it.

SPEAKER_05 12:05

Well, I was just gonna say Colombia is sort of a different animal because we're we're doing this project in Colombia and it's much closer to the U.S., it's only three hours from Florida, and so we have tons of expats going in there again, chasing a more affordable life. And now that so many more people can work remotely and it's not too much of an issue. And also now that people know that Colombia is not like it was

Medellin development: building in pesos, charging rent in dollars

SPEAKER_05 12:29

during the Pablo Escobar days. I guess we gotta we gotta make that clear first. That's um, you know, that was in the 90s, so that was like 30 years ago. But uh a lot of people are going down there in this development we're doing. We're expecting to rent uh this is in Medellin specifically, and the city is in a valley that's pretty well built out already. So there's sort of not a whole lot of land left to build. So then you have that supply-demand uh equation happening there, just like the this city where I'm at, too. It's it's sort of a similar thing. There's not a lot of land left to build. Uh and but in Colombia, we can charge dollars, so we can build with in pesos, and labor's much cheaper. I wouldn't say materials are really that much cheaper, but we can build with uh uh pain and pesos and then charge in dollars for you know foreigners staying in the short-term rental. So it should work out really well, hopefully. That's the plan.

SPEAKER_04 13:31

Yeah, I heard Medellin's really nice. Uh like you mentioned it's the perfect weather all year round. It's it's it's inland, right? It's not it's not towards the coast.

SPEAKER_05 13:42

Correct, yeah. It's it's in kind of like in the middle of the country. Yeah, up in the up in the mountains, so it's a little higher, so it's not uh so it's not really humid because it's not right next to the equator, and then it's higher, so it's a little cooler. Uh it's and it is a beautiful, really beautiful place.

SPEAKER_04 13:59

Is that is that where Jasper bought his condo?

SPEAKER_05 14:02

I think he got one, if I remember right, in uh Cali.

SPEAKER_04 14:06

Oh, Cali. Okay, okay. Yeah, yeah. That's cool. So yeah, he he loves it over there. He loves Cologne.

SPEAKER_05 14:13

It's great. I mean, people are super nice, and uh it's just it's nice. Yeah, I would highly suggest we get an opportunity to check it out.

SPEAKER_04 14:22

So, so what you know, I'm interested in the ex pats pat side of things, you know. Not that I could do it, you know, I got my family and stuff, but I've just I've just always been fascinated where you could just, you know, like I said, we mentioned earlier, you you you want to make your dollars here. You don't want to go fly to Columbia and expect to get a job and and live, right? Because that would that wouldn't work out too good.

SPEAKER_05 14:41

Uh if you're getting a Colombian job, yeah, the average wages are are much, much lower. Um although I would say there's a lot of really good like uh developers and stuff like that that that are coming out of Colombia. And one of the things that's happening, because we're so global. I mean, I was doing interviews this morning with people in Eastern Europe from Croatia and from Serbia, and we basically have access to the whole world, and there's like really good talent, and it's gonna level the playing field a little bit, you know. People that are really well skilled, wherever they happen to be in the world, they're they're gonna get paid for for their talent, you know. So I think some of these places, if you're working virtually, you'll be able to start making more as a as a native resident to there. But at the moment, like yeah, in Colombia, it's much less than it would be in the US.

SPEAKER_02 15:36

Wow.

SPEAKER_04 15:37

How how are you able to uh remotely manage 75 plus

Managing 75 units remotely with Hostaway, PriceLabs and virtual team

SPEAKER_04 15:42

units?

SPEAKER_05 15:44

Yeah, with with help. So uh with uh I've got a really really good virtual team, and then I have contacts on the ground, right? So housekeepers and maintenance uh and a manager that kind of oversees a lot of the on-the-ground stuff. So we've built a really I I guess for me being outside of the US means so far from my properties for so long. I'm I I love systems, you know, and software and all those things. So I'm always probably experimenting with more than I should because it team doesn't always like changing stuff, but um, so a lot of software and a good team and yeah, I guess just speaking of that, because I want to kind of get into meat and potatoes of that.

SPEAKER_02 16:28

So, like, what software do you use to manage like 70 plus doors? You know, and you're all the way out of the country. What are you using to manage that or your what does your team use?

SPEAKER_05 16:37

I'd I'd say honestly, we probably use regularly somewhere between like 10 to 15 actual different software programs, but the the main, you know, for little pieces here and there, but the main hub of that is our property management software, and we use hostaway for that, and then we use price labs for our dynamic pricing, and we use um hostfully for digital guidebooks. Uh, we use um remote lock for the technology behind most all of our door locks, and um, yeah, definitely some other ones, some digital signing softwares and you know, stuff like that.

SPEAKER_02 17:17

Wow. Okay. So you're using multiple, you use a PMS, and then you use okay, a branch off of hostfully. That's awesome, man. And so, like the Memphis market, like because I was actually telling them last night, the reason you you brought it up, you're like, it's cheaper to buy there. Like, what's the average home price, like well, from now, like for a three-bed, two-bath, someone wants to turn it into a short-term rental? What's the price point on that?

SPEAKER_05 17:40

Yeah, so it depends because Memphis has some really inexpensive homes, but they're not the ones you want to buy to turn into a short-term rental. So I think for me, my my management company is called Midtown Stays. Most of my properties are in midtown sort of areas, so not downtown, but not way out in the suburbs. So they're close to restaurants and they're walking distance, a lot of things. And that's typically an area that's going to be a little more expensive. And so I would say in those areas, if you were to buy a single family home, like the last single family home I bought, there was actually almost 400,000, but it's pretty big. Um, but I would say the range, and it's in a good area. I mean, you can just walk, you can open the front door and walk to a lot of a lot of cool stuff. I would say the range there is probably, you know, maybe 250 on the low side, but it's probably gonna need some work. I mean, prices have gone up there quite a bit too.

SPEAKER_02 18:38

Yeah, I love the midtown area. We me and my wife, we walked all the bars down there. Yeah, those that was the side of Memphis I had never seen, so I loved it. So yeah, if you're in that area, you can you can't live.

SPEAKER_04 18:49

Yeah, it's uh good spot. Obviously, you don't have a day job, you don't have a W-2. So, how are we able to continue purchasing houses?

SPEAKER_05 18:58

Yeah, so I I've been investing in real estate for about 13 years now. So fortunately, I got in at a pretty good time where prices were lower right after the last crash. And I've basically I did a lot of renovations earlier on, big renovations, more of that, you know, it's probably where some of this gray hair and slight slight balding has come from. And but it paid off, right? It added a lot of equity and was able to refinance a lot of properties and pull that money back out to use for other investments. So now it comes from cash flow, uh, luckily. And um, we're also managing other properties now. We just started that, which has been exciting. It's it's not full-blown management like traditional property management, or obviously we're not there. It's sort of a hybrid approach where we're doing everything we do with my properties, with other people's properties. So we have a discounted commission model, but uh, it's been a lot of fun. But it's also can be lucrative too. So we're we're kind of expanding that at the moment.

SPEAKER_02 19:59

Now, where are you managing property in the same area or in a different area?

SPEAKER_05 20:03

So that's the cool thing about doing virtual management. I mean, we can do it anywhere anywhere, like literally anywhere. So uh we just brought on a property in the Smoky Mountains, uh, you know, a week before we brought in Destin, Florida. We've got some uh properties in Southern California, uh Missouri. I mean, it doesn't it doesn't really matter too much. I mean, the way a guest checks into a property and the hospitality side of things is pretty much the same, no matter what type of property is. Of course, we need to know the insides and outs of the property, but that's the exciting thing about it. We we can pretty much do it

Expansion into vacation markets with discounted management model

SPEAKER_05 20:40

anywhere. And I'm sure, you know, when we finish this development in Columbia, we're just gonna we'll just add that right into the into the system.

SPEAKER_02 20:48

So, and I noticed I noticed all the areas you just mentioned are kind of really heavy desk uh vacation rental markets. Is there a reason why on management is that what you're purposely targeting, or it just happens to be what you picked up?

SPEAKER_05 21:03

Yeah, it just happened to be what we picked up. Um, I had I have a podcast as well that you that you guys mentioned, their short-term rental riches. And so we haven't done any marketing outside of that. I I mention it on there from time to time. And so people have just been coming to us, which is really which is really cool. Um, and a lot of times in these vacation rental markets, this is, I guess, just a theory that I have uh right now as we're kind of getting started. The the traditional management fees are really high in some of these traditional vacation rental markets. I mean, you see 30, 40 plus percent in some of these places. And that's off your gross income, right? So a lot of times these property managers are making more than the owners are making. And it's not we have so many tools now that you don't necessarily need someone there on the ground. So we work really well with some. that already has a housekeeper in place, someone that already has a maintenance person in place. And then we just take everything over and we communicate for them and hopefully save them a lot. Uh you know, or we would save them a lot on the the commission side. And uh, you know, they're still not responsible for doing hardly anything at all. So I think that might be where it is as we're we're kind of entering into an economy that's you know we got banks failing and stuff like that and people are getting squeezed. And uh vacations are one of the first things to go when people have less money. And so if their occupancy is going down a little bit, I think people are probably reconsidering uh some of their expenses.

SPEAKER_02 22:42

So with you know with like vacation being in the vacation rental market change I know you're in Memphis, right? Um have you looked at other strategies like just in case travel does start to back off because I know you talked about the tourism in uh Memphis like such as hey going into maybe midterm stays or housing professionals or things of that nature?

SPEAKER_05 23:02

Yeah I think um the midterm stays can be a really great option uh I I like them and a lot of my properties are smaller multifamily properties and that cater to longer term stays anyways you know remote work and that was one of the things I I sort of intentionally did that because I found that I was having less parties people were staying longer they were easier guests you know coming in for work and so I sort of went after that in fact I have some multifamily properties that are mixed units and I've kept the bigger ones as long-term rentals and then the smaller ones I've turned into short term rentals uh but let's see um shoot I think I went out what was the original question I was just saying if you had looked into other strategies you know to kind of fill oh other strategies like the midterm stays in case if you felt that hey the mark the travel's gonna slow down yeah yeah no I I actually a lot of the properties most all the properties I acquired worked as uh long-term rentals before I converted them into short term rentals so that's my ultimate backup plan and that was all you can't you can't find that in a vacation rental market you can't buy a million dollar beach home and expect to rent it out on a year long lease and cash flow it's just like not going to happen. Um so I was looking for more affordable places with sort of roots in the long-term rental investment world and then

Cash-out refinances at low rates funded the portfolio

SPEAKER_05 24:32

looking for properties that I could switch over to a short-term rental but then still have that backup option if the economy got bad or as we know the regulations change all the time too or they can change and so that was another potential concern. Also one that's easy easier to get around with now with the medium term stays which is another cool reason for medium term stays. Now the um you mentioned you got you mentioned it earlier the uh the cash out refi so I guess I take it when the rates were super low you that that was a great strategy for you right yeah I I tried to refinance uh pretty much pretty much everything uh before the rates went up and luckily uh pretty much got everything refinanced uh for longer term fixed rates so it was good uh good timing so so with with the rates so high now it's that's not even an option anymore is it uh the last loan I did was actually for seven and a half percent so it wasn't like a a a cheap loan but that was a commercial loan

Last loan at 7.5% still cash flows, locked in for 30 years

SPEAKER_05 25:37

that I had and it's still cash flows with a seven and a half percent loan and so it's very possible that rates are going to go down again I would rather have the protection from having it fixed for 30 years at a 7.5% interest rate than having to refinance when maybe rates are at 9% you know we I don't know we never know or banks are going out of business and so they're not even lending uh as easily as maybe they were so I just didn't really want that risk. So the the last loan I did was seven and a half percent um but the nice thing is you can always refinance in the future if it goes back down so that's the beauty of it right um man so and also and also so how how on top of you you you mentioned uh you use beyond price is it beyond pricing right I I use price labs oh price labs yes yes we use price labs too so so how important is uh dynamic pricing I mean do you do you tinker with that all the time yeah I I think it's really essential uh I also think though it's not something that you could just set and never look at again I I think it takes you probably like 75 or even 80% of the way if you really have all the features down and you understand your market well but you need to understand the market well otherwise if you set the the pricing up wrong you know you can have the best property on the block but no one's gonna rent it if it's not you know if it's five times higher than the neighbors yeah and and so you went through the Airbnb they call it the Airbnb bust right you went through that what did you do to to you know get get your places rented again or did you have a drop off at all? Fortunately I didn't have too much of a drop off um I did during COVID so we can come back to that one if you want but um I have a lot a lot of reviews now with those properties been doing it for quite a long time and this was something I noticed during COVID actually is that my property still did pretty well during COVID and I just fortunately I think what happened is that there's a lot of new properties entering the market and Airbnb or booking.com or whichever OTA you're on is favoring ones that have more reviews. And so mine continued to appear in the search results probably because they had hundreds of reviews and so I while I did see a drop and my new properties kind of went vacant for a few months my properties that I had for a while just hung in there and they did well but that's that's another reason I like Memphis and I like these bigger bigger cities because they have a lot of reasons for people to be visiting there. So the the Airbnb bust I think is more related to specific like vacation rentals where everyone went out and they're like oh man I need a vacation rental uh and you know Nashville for example Nashville's in Tennessee also but it's a completely different market from from Memphis and prices just went crazy there and it's also one of the places that's seeing the biggest drops now already you know that's kind of how it works like the

Why hundreds of reviews kept Memphis properties full during COVID

SPEAKER_05 28:50

the places that see the biggest increases they see the the quickest decreases sometimes too I and I have a question now because I just thought about this because I know one reason why a lot of people were avoiding Nashville because some people were saying some things about regulations and with you having a huge portfolio out in Memphis what are the short-term rental regulations out there and are they pretty f favorable yeah they have been um you know it's what it was sort of a gray area when there aren't really black and white regulations in place when you go into market and there weren't when I went there in 2017 that was one of the reasons I left California I had short term rentals there which I started and I remember they passed laws and I was trying to get it was just you know took forever and uh never got any straight answers and I remember I found this property it was an eight unit building in Memphis and I was doing my due diligence and I remember calling the city to find out about the regulations and said hey got this property there and I'm planning on doing short term rentals and they're like what's a short term rental you know the first thing the amazing thing was they actually picked up the phone that doesn't happen in California.

SPEAKER_02 30:03

Like someone actually picked up the phone I'm like hello what this is crazy um so yeah they didn't have any they they have changed them so they do have taxes now which Airbnb collects automatically luckily um and tourist taxes so they've got that all kind of set up and then if you're on other listing sites then it has to be paid paid to them directly and I do want to throw that tip out there because I have rentals about two hours away from Memphis and Arkansas and what I have noticed about these smaller towns is they partner with Airbnb and all these OTAs like directly like they pay the taxes for you the lodging tax and that's why I think they're really friendly markets these smaller markets that people overlook. Yeah so definitely for all the listeners that's a really good tip is that these smaller markets are willing because they want that tourism because it's a smaller town.

SPEAKER_05 30:59

It's it's a huge revenue source for them. I mean these cities are making a lot of times this we don't look at it or you know when it's on the news and stuff they don't talk about that side but these cities are making millions and millions of dollars in transient occupancy tax not to mention all the people that come there they're going out to restaurants they're doing all that and the cool thing for the city is that like they didn't have to create a new department to manage all this or do anything. It just like sort of overnight all of a sudden they're getting all this money and so for a lot of these cities to just put a regulation up and say ah we don't we don't want this money anymore or we don't like this yeah there's a lot of other things that can happen there depending on the neighborhoods and stuff like that. But I I I kind of see it like a an uber situation. You know Uber got a ton of pushback from the cab companies and people like Uber and so people continue to try using it. And so some places it's going to be much more difficult to kind of pass through and others um it's a little easier. I would say I've I've sort of noticed a trend in that's that the places with housing shortages are more likely to have strong regulations on short-term rentals because they already don't have enough housing for their residents. But these are places you know these are places like San Francisco and Seattle and Miami and Los Angeles these are places that I would never be investing in anyways not to say someone can't find opportunities there, but these are really expensive places because there's a housing shortage the prices go up.

SPEAKER_02 32:40

So I've never heard it that way man that's why I love this podcast that's a great way to put it I never thought about it like that.

SPEAKER_05 32:46

Hey you ain't got no housing supply because you know most of the people they get on like Instagram and stuff they say well there's a housing shortage everywhere you know I'm like you know and they blame everything on Airbnb and I'm like I don't necessarily think that's the case you know but yeah in those cities you're absolutely right yeah yeah it's um the some of these news articles and stuff that come out just kind of I saw one you know there's always the top cities to invest in list you know the best cities for short-term rentals and I was looking at one recently and it had all these same cities it had Miami and Los Angeles and stuff and it was basing it off their daily rate which is really high right but if we look at it from sort of the back end if it's $500 a night it could very well be because there's no rentals there because they don't allow them. So the very few that are there people still want to use short-term rentals and so they're gonna pay an arm and leg just to stay in them. So we got to be careful with some of these lists and information and stuff going around. I love that yeah so so so what made you want to uh when did you start your podcast and what made you want to get into podcasting I actually started about three years ago so it's been uh yeah it's been a it's been a fun journey every week um they're quick actionable episodes so I haven't done a whole bunch of interviews on there so it's been a little easier in terms of time and stuff like that but uh it really was a I had a lot of friends asking me like hey man how are you living like thousands of miles away from your property and and uh managing them still and doing that and so it was kind of a way to answer a lot of those questions at the same time um and it's grown into much more than that you know now we have um I've done some live events and stuff like that and it's it's been a lot of fun but uh yeah was that I guess that's how it started yeah just documenting your story that's how it started yeah how how have your live events events been me and Steve have been trying to get been getting into that more and more how how how has that been for you yeah they they're they were a blast basically I actually did them in Memphis so went in and flew into Memphis rented a tour bus and rented a conference room and kind of just went through a crash course of how I set up all my management and how what I look for too in in investments. And so we'd we'd spend one day going through property acquisition and what I look for how I run the numbers all those types of things and then talk about the software programs they use and then we'd actually get on the get on the bus and go see quite a few of my properties in action so it was a lot of fun it's just kind of far to get there now.

SPEAKER_04 35:32

You know it's it's like that was flying backs quite a ways there was one recently at Columbia was were you part of that one no a short it was a short term rental one yeah Julie George her books back there in the background she she had mentioned she's not going to Columb she's uh she's hopping all over the globe to go to these things but she was going to the Columbia one and and you you're you're there part of the year I thought you I thought you would have been at it yeah I've been down here in Brazil for most the most of the year so far um but uh heading back yeah next next week going to a couple conferences actually first and then uh thing go on so so so what was your previous job and how and when when was the jumping off point when did you have the the courage the the Hutzpa to to jump ship to leave your job yeah it was

Quitting commercial real estate after fourplex income jumped 8x

SPEAKER_04 36:21

a difficult decision um well I guess it even before that I when I was in high school I did an exchange program and I lived with a family in Spain for a few weeks and that was kind of the thing like wow this was an amazing trip they were you know my my parents weren't really getting along too well and it was like they were so happy when I went there in Spain and it was it was so different.

SPEAKER_05 36:46

Everything was different the food was great and you know the the architecture everything and so I just loved it it really changed and influenced my life and I was trying to figure out a way to just be able to travel really and so I went to school I did international business thinking oh I'll get a job somewhere internationally that didn't happen. You know I tried I got my MBA and that didn't really change anything at all. And along that during that time I was working for a software company in sales uh working with automotive shops selling software just kind of door to door in Northern California. And I did that for a long time I did that for like eight years while I was building my uh real estate portfolio. And at some point so I I bought a few properties read the Rich Dad port book you know that kind of changed the mindset and I'm like okay I can buy real estate and then I can travel uh that's kind of what I'm looking for now. So I realized real estate was a good good route and I got my real estate license not that that's required to be a real estate investor or anything but I think that's just you know at least back in the day a lot of us were doing that. And I did get a position at a commercial real estate firm and I worked there just doing investments and that was amazing experience. So we did just investments and they were big investments. So multifamily properties shopping centers uh big land deals and warehouse and I was sort of the the underdog there doing a lot of underwriting and stuff like that and um yeah I I it was an office job though you know so I unfortunately just couldn't travel and do that at the same time and I read four hour work week and quit quit the job and I went to Argentina went down man seriously that was it and my other job that was software I had sort of figured out how to do it remotely and uh so I I went to Argentina and I kept doing the real estate job or not the real estate job sorry I kept doing the software job remotely without them really knowing and uh built the real estate but I don't think it was till I converted I had a fourplex I converted into a short term rental and the income like it went up like eight times you know and and so I converted the next unit and then after I converted that whole building it was like all right I'm in pretty good shape now and so from then on I just invested in real estate full time.

SPEAKER_02 39:19

Now what what were some advantages to you for getting your real estate license?

SPEAKER_05 39:24

What advantages did you find um I I guess the only real advantage that I had is I needed it to get a position with that commercial real estate firm. And had I not had my license I wouldn't have learned all that high level real estate uh you know investment analysis and stuff. And so that that was really the benefit but I didn't actually use it a lot in terms of like helping someone purchase a home or selling a home.

SPEAKER_02 39:56

See and I'm happy you brought that up because my wife she's gonna get hers she's already done all the courses but that's our plan. We weren't planning on helping people buy houses if you want to do that we'll pass you off for a referral fee. You know um that's awesome that you're able to do that because that kind of gives me that jump start to go ahead and keep her pushing doing that.

SPEAKER_05 40:14

Yeah you know that that experience seriously was like I remember just riding out like because I my boss was amazing. He was just like I was this underdog and he's like this guy you know driving around in a big seven series beamer and he owns thousands of apartments and people are flying in and looking I remember at this time we're we went and this guy flies in and we're driving around all day looking at apartment buildings big ones you know two 300 units that aren't for sale but that's how they that's how it's done in the you know in the in these nothing's really for sale until the the price is right with these bigger complexes and I remember he's like Tim write up a write up an offer for those those two buildings and I'm like oh my god there's like those there's a lot of units and I'm like oh what do you think like 67 million and he's like make it 67 five or something like that you know I was just like oh man this job is awesome uh in in terms of that experience but it was a you know it was an office job and I had to go in there a suit and tie every day and uh it just uh only lasts for so long unfortunately but I I'm really I I don't regret not I don't regret leaving obviously I'm you know it's uh wouldn't have been able to do to do what uh what I have since then were they were they tripping out when you decided when you said you're gonna leave yeah I think it was a bit he's like you know he offered to pay more and all that stuff it was just uh yeah I think I think he was a little bit no no one benefit especially back then way back then when you were doing when you you had your license and all that one huge benefit to me uh would would be you can go you see a house you can go look at it you can go walk in there and look at it right because you didn't have to go get an agent back in the day you had to get an agent they had to schedule a tour you had to do all this stuff you can go check out any house whenever you wanted right yeah that's true and and back at that time there was a lot of foreclosures especially um you know after 2008 2009 and so they're all vacant a lot of times they had lock boxes on there so yeah you could actually I remember working with the software company and I used to work with these part salesman reps and there was another guy that had been investing in real estate too and we'd like you know we'd start the day meet at his meet at the parts automotive parts store and then we'd just go look at real estate all day we'd like be driving around like oh man like this one so yeah that was an advantage as well yeah I can't believe how cheap some of those properties were back in the day it's crazy.

SPEAKER_02 42:58

Yeah so yeah so Tim like you've had a lot of experience so like what advice would you give someone you know who's just starting out as a short term rental uh investor like yeah what what and also what are some important lessons you've learned along the way as well yeah I I think um an

Always have a backup plan: buy properties that work long-term first

SPEAKER_02 43:18

important lesson I'd say is always have a always have a backup plan.

SPEAKER_05 43:21

Um and we definitely don't want to get in over our our heads but really the only way we can figure that out is by running the numbers on something. And so we need to understand the numbers behind a property. And fortunately there's tons of resources out there available you know you can jump on YouTube and you can see a million different people underwriting a property. We didn't have that you know 15 years ago where you could just jump on YouTube and learn from professionals you know there's also non professionals out there too. So just make sure you get your sources right but um a lot of really good information out there. So I would say learning the numbers and stuff and that that's also Something that makes you more comfortable and helps you actually take the leap to get your first property. Uh, because a lot of people don't learn enough. Uh, and you know, I think the more we learn, the the the less kind of fear, I guess, there is. So I'd say that. Uh, a big lesson learned is for me is in regards to renovations and making sure that you always have some spare change around and you're not maxing yourself out because these things always cost more, they always take longer, and uh that can be a really stressful situation if if you're unable to finish a project and and you have no money left.

SPEAKER_02 44:46

I just went over budget on a rehab, I know what you mean.

SPEAKER_05 44:49

Yeah, it's tough, it's tough.

SPEAKER_04 44:52

So you you're you're managing these rehabs thousands of miles away, right?

SPEAKER_05 44:57

So I'm not doing a lot of extensive rehabs anymore. Um, that was sort of how what I did in the beginning, and it was a great way to generate a lot more equity. But after I did that first property in Memphis, actually eight-unit uh apartment building where you did the whole thing and it was a lot of work, like, man, I don't want to do all this. And of course, that is harder to do if you're virtual, if you're further away, unless you happen to have a really good contractor that you've already worked with. Um, but that can be uh, and you know, if you do your research or you know, I think it's best to always get referrals. Uh, like I did a remote renovation down here in Brazil and also one in Colombia, and and luckily they they worked out. Um, I did pay a little more for those contractors, so that's sometimes we think we're we're saving a little bit of money working with some contractors that have a lower price, but then it ends up uh you know not working out. So yeah, cheap for a lesson learned too. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 46:02

Yeah, man, dude. This has been a great episode, Micah. What are you thinking?

SPEAKER_02 46:06

Sure, great one.

SPEAKER_04 46:07

You ready to move to Brazil?

SPEAKER_02 46:09

Uh no, but I'm running in just in Memphis.

SPEAKER_04 46:12

Oh, Memphis, okay.

SPEAKER_02 46:14

Yeah, because uh what I'll tell you was I just stayed at this awesome Airbnb in Memphis. Um, it was a duplex, and uh, I was like, man, this is and it was in the the Binghampton uh neighborhood. Um so I was like, man, this is a really nice neighborhood, and uh it was a really nice Airbnb. So definitely like the market.

SPEAKER_05 46:30

Yeah, they have some some really nice neighborhoods there in Neptes. Also some really bad ones, though.

SPEAKER_02 46:37

Yeah, yeah, they had Orange Mound.

SPEAKER_05 46:40

So you gotta make sure.

SPEAKER_04 46:42

So I take it do your due diligence. You're financially independent, I would assume, right? And and and so and so what motivates you to keep going and keep getting more properties and more work and just what motivates you to keep doing that?

SPEAKER_05 46:58

I just like real estate. I don't know. It's like it's like built into me now. Like anywhere I go when I'm traveling, I'm all I'm always looking at real estate and opportunities. But I think one of the things that I really enjoy now is building my management company uh and hiring more people and people from all over the world too now. So, you know, we have people in Mexico, we have a lot of people in the Philippines, and now we're hiring in in in Europe, and that's just a lot of fun. Like uh it's like just building a machine, um, which also helps me, you know. It's it's as I add more properties, our management machine is is getting even better, and I can just plug them, plug them into the system.

SPEAKER_02 47:41

So systems, right?

SPEAKER_05 47:44

That's nice now now.

SPEAKER_04 47:46

So we have we have a lot of uh listeners that are that are you know in a little more advanced stage in their in their real estate in their um short-term middle careers, I guess. Um, so they are utilizing um virtual assistants. What are your some of your your best tips for hiring main and maintain and keeping the talent and attracting good talent as uh virtual assistants?

SPEAKER_05 48:07

Yeah, I think um first of all, we need to know exactly what we're looking for.

Hiring virtual assistants: set realistic schedules and daily checklists

SPEAKER_05 48:13

And so I see a lot of times when someone's maybe hiring their first virtual assistant or someone they're working with virtually, that they're kind of expecting too much, you know, especially when it comes to short-term rentals, that maybe they want to hire someone to just handle all their guest messages, but someone's not gonna be on call 24-7, seven days a week. Uh, it's just not realistic. So even if they start with you, I don't think that's a really good long-term solution. So I think having a set schedule makes it easier for people. I'd recommend if someone's hiring their first assistant to help specifically with their short-term rentals, that they just choose the shift or the schedule that is busiest for them. So where it's going to take, you know, for for us, that's Thursday through Mondays usually, you know, the weekends are always busier, more people checking in, more people checking out. And so if if you can hire someone Thursday through Monday, it's a five-day shift. There's it, right? Uh, and takes the bulk of all your workout. So I think first of all, we just have to be kind of realistic. Uh, and the second thing is we need to know exactly what we're looking for, and you know, have some sort of agreement is always always good. Uh sometimes when we hire someone, it's it's kind of on like a a test basis, too, uh, you know, or we say this is temporary for 30 days, and if for some reason it it's not working out. Um, so not also not being afraid to uh let someone go if if they're not working out. But I was just doing a bunch of interviews today in uh Eastern Europe. It's kind of fun. We're hiring a marketing person. Gosh, I can't believe the the just the talent out everywhere. I mean, it's just amazing. But um let's see. So yeah, know what we're looking for, be realistic. It helps once uh also to to to let them know, you know, that your future plans. Like no one wants to start a position with someone that they don't think is maybe gonna be there long term, and so really kind of get that across. Like, hey, I'm a real estate investor, I'm planning on building my portfolio, and this is all I really plan on doing. So I'm looking to work with someone for the long term that they can grow with us.

SPEAKER_04 50:34

Very nice. Nice. Yeah, they see uh what the future holds for them. I like that. So cool, man. We we have a lot of yeah, we have a lot of uh VAs in the Philippines, great hard workers. We have been through a few of them though, but um but we've done our share of hiring and firing and and building it. It comes with it, man. It comes with they could start out gangbusters and then just all of a sudden kind of fade away, you know. It's just it just happens.

SPEAKER_05 51:01

You know, yeah, we've we've definitely gone through quite a few, too. I I think um one thing that we do is we have a daily checklist that everyone fills out, everyone on our team, even though we're not necessarily reading it every day, but that holds someone accountable without micromanaging them. So, you know, what tasks did you complete today? Did you have any issues? What questions you have? That's one thing we do, and then if you've hired quite a few people, you're probably using some sort of virtual screen monitoring uh in terms of tracking time. We use uh hub staff for that. Um so yeah, a couple ways, but yeah, sometimes things just don't uh don't work out, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 51:45

But don't stop trying, right, Micah? Yeah, no, definitely don't.

SPEAKER_02 51:49

Yeah, yeah, definitely gotta hire and fire people, but yeah, well, cool, man.

SPEAKER_04 51:54

This has been a great episode, dude. Thank you for hopping on this. It's been great. You were gonna say something. I saw you you're about to say something. What were you gonna say? You got excited. Me?

SPEAKER_05 52:04

No, no, I should say it was great. It's great, great chatting with you guys. It's always fun to talk to other people in space for sure.

SPEAKER_02 52:09

Yeah, and especially other podcasters, man. Uh, definitely we'll be uh keeping in touch. And uh, we get we'll get you in touch with Will, man. We got to get you into the HFM network.

SPEAKER_05 52:18

Cool, definitely. Yeah, no, that sounds good. All right, I appreciate it.

SPEAKER_02 52:22

All right, man. Thank you for coming on.

SPEAKER_05 52:24

Oh, where can people find you, real quick?

SPEAKER_02 52:25

Yeah, yeah, where can people find you? My bad.

SPEAKER_05 52:27

Um, yeah, so uh the short-term rental riches podcast, that's the name of uh my podcast. You can find it on iTunes, Apple, any of those uh different outlets. Our website is restmethods.com. And so I we have a lot of resources on there, like the software we use, and um, you know, we've got our house rules on there and a bunch of bunch of different things. And if someone's interested in property management too, again, we use the exact same team that manages my properties and we manage them exactly like we manage my properties, and so there's a link there too, just with a couple questions, and then we can get in touch and chat and see if it's a good fit there, too.

SPEAKER_04 53:07

All right, man. Cool, brother. Thank you, Tim, for hopping on. Thanks, guys. All right, man. We'll see you.

SPEAKER_01 53:14

See ya, see ya. All right, man. Episode, uh I think it's 256. I looked at you. I looked online because I know we have a bunch in the bag. So I'm like, episode is this? I think 256.

SPEAKER_04 53:29

Let's see if I can find it real quick. Keep chatting, keep chatting.

SPEAKER_02 53:31

Or 257. I don't know, but uh yeah, that was a great episode. And it's so happy. I'm happy he was able to come on and tell me about the Memphis market because I was just trying to get someone on from Memphis, and then boom, we get him. So yeah, I was really good episode. And uh, me and Steve, Steve had an awesome meetup last night, and uh that was one thing we were talking about was markets like Memphis, where the prices aren't as much, but the cash flow is really high because the prices are pretty low. So, yeah, it's definitely a market to check out. Um, maybe check it out in a few years after I set up shop. I don't want you guys just storming the market, but uh yeah, that is uh that was a good cast, man.

SPEAKER_04 54:07

It's a good cast, and um I I just I'm still excited about this industry, and a lot of people did pour into it, you know, in the in recent years and got their ass handed to them, and then they're heading out, heading back out, you know, going find something else, maybe drop shipping, maybe with the next hottest NFTs, whatever the new hottest thing is, they'll go chase that. But they they they jumped into space and a lot of people couldn't make it. But our listeners that hanging in there, all these episodes that we've done, still listening to us. I mean, y'all are making it, y'all are either gonna make it or y'all are making it because you're sticking to it, you know, and we've stuck to it for years, and we're watching the fruits of our labor, you know, finally coming back, you know, and and and and you know, thank God for everything. Of course, um my income is is is through the business is way surpassed what I was making at my job, and that's it's still it's still yeah, it's still scary to jump ship and all that, but um, but yeah, thank you know, thank goodness for that. But just it's just sticking with it, it's not being complacent, right? And and like this, like um this guest Tim Hubbard, he still does it because he loves it, man. How beautiful is that? I mean, you you you freaking you do something because you love it, and and and and you of course it get you get paid for it. And this is what I see, like like I'm going off of metaphors and stuff, but but like like with our business, you know, um, you know, we're continually we're we're never complacent. We're never saying, okay, we got enough units, we got enough clients, we got enough guests coming in, we're good. No, we're always looking for we're always looking for more uh units. We're always looking for more more clients. We're always out there looking for more. And and even if it's even if we're using a lot of our cash flow to pump into another unit, to pump into another arbitrage, to buy another house, to buy another this, to you know, to put it out there to to get more clients. It's it's it's keeping our it's keeping our cash flow, you know, in use. If we did decide to stop a sit back, we planted a lot of seeds, right? A lot of trees are gonna grow.

SPEAKER_02 56:12

It's just like the uh cash flow quadrant, man. If you're taking what you comes in and you're putting it back into an investment, you can't lose. That's the way it's supposed to be. That's what Kiyosaki taught us.

SPEAKER_04 56:23

It just keeps compounding and compounding. And Tim Herbert showed us that he lives on another side of the freaking planet, and and his business is still booming, still growing. He doesn't stop, can't stop, won't stop. He just keeps going, man, because and and he and it's fun. We freaking love it. It's stressful, but it's a good stressful.

SPEAKER_02 56:41

It is, man. And what I tell you, because I know you you're you're on that fence about jumping ship. I will tell you this. If you are to the point of the cash flow coming in, it depends on your goal. Do you want to continue buying? You know, and then are you using credit? Because yeah, it me trying to do a refi without the nine to five, yeah, it was a pain in the ass. So you have to you have to take that into consideration. Do you want to do that? If not, if like you you're you're you're comfortable with the DSCR and the higher interest rate, then keep on, you know, then go ahead and jump ship, you know.

SPEAKER_04 57:13

You know, I'm comfortable with screw banks. I'm going subject to baby, and owner finance all day. They don't check my credit, they don't check my pay stubs, they don't check my two, three years of IRS refunds, they don't ask for nothing, they just want to see that money. Let me get a few of these under my belt first and then I'll go I'll go in tomorrow to to go um talk to them. Uh the ones the the sellers, uh the seller at the agent finally talked to the agent, right? She kind of understands what subject two is. And if if y'all are like, What's subject to? I mean, you've been listening to us for a while, but go look at some of Pace Morby's stuff and you'll see what subject two is. But so she finally came around and said, Oh, okay, I think I understand it. You know, that's something that might be a good the idea for my how my seller. Let me let me talk to them. Okay, us me and the seller are gonna meet you at the house tomorrow. We can chat, so I'm gonna go, I'm gonna go have the meeting, you know. I gotta put myself out there in uncomfortable situations. I don't know this 100% perfect, but I know I can grasp it and I can and I can and I have great mentors around me to help.

SPEAKER_02 58:22

There you go. That's all you got to do is put yourself out there, man. Trust me, me and Mahogany closed on one of our first wholesale deals two weeks ago. We just did a bunch of shit together. We did it. We did it, you know. So, um, but what I tell people is this, man, like how you said you're just putting yourself out there, that's great. And I know you've been listening to Pace because you did it through the real estate agent, which a lot of people don't know. Tell the real estate agent, hey, I'll still pay you your commission. Just give me in front of the seller. That's the trick, man. Congratulations to you, man, and y'all gonna kill it, man. Go get that sub two deal closed up.

SPEAKER_04 58:53

Sweet. Yeah. Uh about a week ago, I closed the owner financing deal. So if we get the sub two, that's uh man, bro. Keep going, baby.

SPEAKER_02 59:00

This is awesome because if you look at from where we were six years ago when we started this cast, we would have never thought Steve's doing sub two owner finance deals. I'm doing a little bit of wholesaling, rehabbing, turn them into short-term rentals. Everything's manifested, man. That means this podcast is gonna just keep going up and up because we can keep sharing our experiences, man. Been one hell of a ride. Let's keep it going. Episode 300 on its way.

SPEAKER_04 59:26

Yes, sir. We are out. Oh, go where can I find us? Uh, livelethrive.com, livelethrive at gmail.com. Uh Argist Rentals, A-R G-E-S T. Argist is the largest rentals, share BNB. Hit up sharebnb. And um, yeah, you can find us, talk to us, holler at us, we'll talk to you, we'll make some deals, let's do some deals. Come on, baby.

SPEAKER_02 59:47

Let's do it. We are out.

SPEAKER_00 59:51

Thank you for tuning in to this week's episode of Live Let Thrive. Be sure to tune in next week for all the latest in the world of Airbnb and all that entails. Bye-bye.