Cold open

SPEAKER_00 0:00

Welcome to Live Let Thrive, a podcast about the Airbnb life, the share economy, and everything in between. Here are your hosts, Micah and Steve.

SPEAKER_02 0:11

Hello, hello, hello. And welcome back to another exciting episode. I love Live Let Throw. What is up, Micah? Man, um, good, Stevie Stacks, man.

SPEAKER_03 0:28

How you doing on this beautiful Wednesday?

SPEAKER_01 0:31

Oh, I'm doing great, man. It was a beautiful day playing outside with the girls. I love that, you know. I love the freedom this kind of thing gives us. And um, having some good, yeah, so many storms and calms and storms in this industry. And so you just gotta stick with it, right, Micah? Yes, sir. Just gotta keep on going, man. Gotta keep on going. But this is episode 279 of your favorite short-term, mid-term, long-term rental podcast in the world coming up, coming at you from Fort Worth and Dallas. Fort Worth and Arlington, Texas, Micah.

Architect dropout to attorney: Pam Holt's winding path to real estate

SPEAKER_01 1:06

We do have places in Dallas, we have places Fort Worth, Houston, Center, you know, all over, Micah. So we're coming at you from all over the world, but you know, from Fort Worth and Arlington. We're in the DF Dub, baby. The DF Dub, third largest metropolis in America. That's big. Oh, we have a special guest, and she's gonna carry the show for us today. Uh, Miss Pam Holt. How are you doing, Pam? I'm doing well, I'm doing well. All right, let me read a little bio uh, you know, before we go totally off the rails on this show. So, Pam Holt is an Airbnb enthusiast, rising to the heights of super host and premier host on VRBO. She is a seasoned attorney, real estate broker, and two times international best-selling co-author of Hospitable Hosts and Reputation Driven. Her journey in modern home sharing has been nothing short of extraordinary, with monthly earnings soaring over $20,000 while hosting guests in her primary residence. She and her daughters embark on incredible adventures around the world and guests foot the bill. I love that. Her true passion lies in empowering women to leverage the income potential of the unused space in their homes. She leads a membership community of dynamic women who learn to leverage their homes to obtain financial freedom and lifestyle freedom. Very important. Welcome to the show, Pam. How are you doing?

SPEAKER_06 2:30

Thanks. I'm good, I'm good, I'm good. That sounded really good.

SPEAKER_01 2:33

That was a that was a mouthful. Yeah, my I'm getting older, so uh I I probably can't do it off my phone for very much longer. I'm gonna have to get some print them out or something, you know. It's getting a little letters. That's okay, that's okay. So, yeah, so we have a ton of questions for you too we're happy that you're joining us, and you say you've been a long time listener, that means a lot, you know. That's that's pretty cool. And um, so how did you get your start in real estate, first of all?

SPEAKER_06 3:02

Okay, so now this is back in the day, right? Uh, I mean, I went to uh college, I thought I was gonna be an architect until I walked into the the first day of drafting, and I was like, I that yeah, I can't do this. This is you know, it was I was the only woman in the class. Everybody, all the guys had had like four years in high school of drafting, and I'd only had this one little, you know, mini course. It was so over my head that I just I didn't, it was awful. So, anyway, I finished that degree in design. Um, and so as I tell you the story, it's weird because I've got all these little pieces that I never could really figure out what to do with them until. So that's the end of the story. So, so I, you know, I got my degree and I knew I liked architecture. Um, and so I decided to become a realtor because I was like, okay, I'm gonna start flipping. I'm gonna get some raggedy, then there's a lot of raggedy stuff because I live in Chicago and I'm gonna flip it all. So I've started doing that and um worked for a couple of different um brokerage offices in Chicago until I ran into this shady kind of managing broker. I was like, uh oh no, you're going to get me sued and I'm not having it. So I went to law school and I was like, you're not ever going to be able to put me in a situation that I can't, you know, see all the angles from and protect myself and protect my clients. So did that and kept clipping houses, kept uh servicing buyers and sellers, uh, you know, made my way around almost

The $50,000 accidental discovery - first summer hosting on Airbnb

SPEAKER_06 4:39

all of the big brokerage and houses in Chicago. I managed uh offices, I had my own office, and uh, and you know, I made a whole career out of doing that in central Chicago. And then one day I had a friend, I was going to, I was going out of town, and a friend of mine was like, girl, you should put your house on Airbnb while you're gone. And I was like, that is ridiculous. I am not gonna do that. I I just was like, what are you saying? You know, I just have a regular house, you know, who's just gonna want to stay in my regular house? I got two kids and a dog. Who wants to, you know, who wants to stay here? Um, but you know, I was like, what is the downside of me trying it? Right. So I I gave it a try. I, you know, I got it together a little bit. And um, the day we were leaving, uh, my first guest came and I was like, okay, I might be able to do this. And so I thought I was going to be overseas for like a week. And, you know, as I was there, I started getting more and more interest and inquiries and bookings, and we ended up staying for three weeks, and we went to three different countries, and I was like, okay, this is not so bad. I might like this. And um, so that was July. And then by the end of that year, my house had earned like 50 grand. And mind you, I can only rent my house. I live in my house, right? So, and I rent the whole thing, so I can only do that when my kids are on break from school, right? So, this is summer, a little bit of Thanksgiving, a little bit of Christmas, not very much. So the next year I did a whole full year of hosting during their breaks and made a hundred grand. And I was like, Okay, all right, we got something here. And uh since then, I I host guests in my home and my kids and I travel the world, and it has been fantastic. I think I might I'm almost retired as a real estate person, as a you know, a broker, uh, because hosting is just better, frankly. It is better, it's better to travel the world and have somebody else pay for it than it is to, you know, work with buyers and sellers. Although I love my buyers and sellers.

SPEAKER_01 7:04

I just I love your story, and

Chicago's planned development loophole kills a seven-year hosting streak

SPEAKER_01 7:08

and real quick, I just it it jumps out at me is the part about Chicago, and we've heard of like strict anti-shorter term rental laws and stuff. So, how does that affect your your actually your house?

SPEAKER_06 7:19

Um, it's been a bit of a disaster, I have to say. It was going really, really well for I did it for seven or eight years, and uh, you know, no problems, no issues. I have a a really high nightly rate, and so I don't run into kind of the issues that a lot of people might have if they have lower price spaces. Um, I my clientele, my avatar is um business travelers, which I didn't see that coming. I didn't realize it was gonna be business travelers. I live a block from the lakefront, so I thought I was gonna have um families coming to go to the beach. But I never thought through the idea that nobody comes to Chicago to go to the beach. I mean, this is this, you go to Florida, you go, yeah, I don't know, you go somewhere else, you don't come to Chicago. So it didn't occur to me that I live walking distance from the largest convention center in the Midwest. And so I get can people coming for conventions, uh, trade shows, conferences, uh, get unrelated colleagues who come and stay uh and spend that corporate money. And uh, and it's and it's been great to answer your question. Going along, I'm going along, 70 years, it's time for me to renew my license. And uh and I get a notice from the city that um I have to come down for a hearing. And I'm like, a hearing? What are you talking about? And um, it turns out I live in a planned development, and which means that the entire neighborhood kind of came up all at once. They demolished the original housing that was here, everything came up at one time. It's a planned unit. And Chicago doesn't allow, and it's so random, it's so random. Chicago doesn't allow hosting in those spaces. And so I quickly pivoted and I'm a midterm rental host now, because at 28 days or more in Chicago, you know, you're not short-term rental.

SPEAKER_04 9:12

Right.

SPEAKER_06 9:13

The issue for me though is because I live here, you know, I'm now limited to the summers when my kids have more than 28 days out, uh, or sometimes some holiday, Christmas holiday uh stays as well. But, you know, my house will make 20 grand in a month. So, you know, I'll take the summers and uh picked up a few arbitrage units and a few other things, and I'm still I'm still in business, just not the way it started.

SPEAKER_03 9:45

So, what are exactly are the laws up there? I've I've heard I think I've heard of them, but so you you are you only allowed to do 28 plus days, or how does that work?

SPEAKER_06 9:53

I am in my dwelling, but it varies um depending on the kind of dwelling you have, so the property type. Um, it varies depending on where your home or where your property is located. Like I said, I'm in zoning doesn't allow me to host. So it's not the short-term rental laws. Well, it kind of is, but it's the zoning that I couldn't get, I couldn't overcome. I'd have to go to the city council and have them change the zoning, which wasn't going to happen. So um, you know, the fact is Chicago is trying to get rid of the short-term rentals. There's really no other way you can look at it. And so uh, you know, they are systematically going through, and every time someone uh goes to renew, they're now evaluated in a way that uh that they weren't before. So the scrutiny is really quite severe these days,

Crime headlines versus reality: why cities blame short-term rentals

SPEAKER_06 10:44

and there's only a handful of people that can pass the you know the the restrictions.

SPEAKER_01 10:49

Is it because they're blaming um the housing shortage on short-term rentals, or what do you think?

SPEAKER_06 10:56

I think it's more the uh crime, the the perceived crime that happens. Um, and I, you know, I'm always telling people, I'm like, you know, the media sensationalizes the few, few incidences that uh that ever happened in a short-term rental scenario. And they make it into, you know, like this is what's happening in everybody's place, and everybody's having a party and everybody's, you know, having some kind of disturbance. But um, you know, for my situation, I never did one night rentals. Uh, I never even did weekends. My my folks come during the week because it's the work week. And so, you know, I never had any issues. And uh, you know, I mean, I I went to court a couple of different times and you know, I told my story, and it was a sad story. I'm like, I've replaced my income with this, you know, I've made a career out of this now because you all told me it was okay, because you kept renewing my, you know, my registration, right? So I'm thinking I'm okay. And uh, and so I tried to build an argument around the fact that they couldn't just kind of yank it out from under me, but they yanked it out from under me anyway.

SPEAKER_07 12:07

So you can't find City Hall, like literally, you can't fight City Hall.

SPEAKER_01 12:13

I I guess my thing, oh sorry, no question. Okay, so so my thing was, I mean, I love how you know Airbnb or short-term rentals allows someone to do what you were doing, you know. You you were able to rent your house out, you know, sustain a nice lifestyle and go travel, right? And in that sense, you would go probably rent someone else's Airbnb or short-term rental, you know. And um, what I what I thought was powerful uh about this whole thing and what it could morph into is that one day everybody would have the ability to do that, and we could all hop around each other's houses all over the planet, and then we'd save we'd save money or make money, or you know, right now to leave to go leave somewhere for a month or even a couple weeks is impossible for most, I would say most people to travel, you know. I'm saying because it costs so much, right? But imagine how that would skyrocket if they're able to, if everybody had the ability to rent out their house for a few weeks or a month or a few months, you know, just yeah, it would just help. I think it would be great. It would kind of like how Turo helped people make money with their cars, you know. I thought I thought that's what it would eventually morph into, but the cities don't see it that way.

SPEAKER_06 13:23

You know, what's really what really got me was uh, you know, the fact that the city is telling me what I can do inside my house, you know, it's not like I put a sign out on the front porch. I'm you know, my guests are inside, and I am choosing to allow that to happen. And since I pay my taxes and, you know, I'm a good citizen, I should be able to do that unless I'm having problems, unless I'm disturbing my neighbors, unless, you know, somehow it's an issue, which it never was. So, I mean, I have some philosophical issues about it because really it is, it does allow a lot of people to stay in their homes and um where they might not be able to do that. And especially I worked with a lot of women. So I work with women, and a lot of them are you know considering at some point retiring. Um, a lot of times they're they're empty nesters are facing becoming empty nesters, and they want to stay in their homes, but uh, or they want to retire sooner, or they want to retire with a bigger, you know, nest egg. And hosting in their homes is just a really natural. I mean, people have been having borders and hosting since the beginning of time, but now the city gets to tell you who can do it and who can't. Not for that.

Hotel lobby versus convention revenue - the real fight in Chicago

SPEAKER_02 14:40

That's crazy. Yeah, that's great.

SPEAKER_03 14:43

I don't it I don't know, I don't know where the um hosting's going, you know. Um, because you know, more and more laws are coming about. They just banned it in Dallas, and then Dallas also just uh announced that they're building a second Ritz-Carlton. So it's like, you know, the hotels are kind of in a little bit, you know.

SPEAKER_06 15:01

There are a lot of so there are a lot of conventions that come to Chicago, and there are a lot of hotels. And Airbnb and the whole short-term rental market was eating away at that hotel money. And honestly, I think that has a lot to do with it. The the city has to they gotta earn their money off of that, uh, you know, the the revenue and and all of the all that goes along with the hotels. And um, you know, they're not really thinking about those of us who would like to go to Europe for the summer or whatever. They're they're like, no, I gotta have, you know, I can make sure whatever the Sheridan is, you know, fully booked because that's good for business, it's good for the city.

SPEAKER_03 15:39

Yeah. And I'm happy you brought that up because that's one thing me and Steve haven't really talked about on this podcast is how much conventions mean to cities and how much hotels make make off that. Because I was at a Tony Robbins event this weekend, 14,000 people came to town. Half the people, and it's at the convention center that's connected to the omni hotel. So you know they have to make their money. But the group that I came that who came down here with me, they of course did what? They stayed at an Airbnb because it was a group, which they'll that Airbnb will probably be banned next month, unfortunately. You know, so yeah, it's interesting how it's all playing out. But I think uh I I think it'll be allowed to where people can still make money. We just have to get creative, like you did with the midterms. I love how you did that.

SPEAKER_06 16:22

You know, I I couldn't let them, I wasn't gonna let them put me out of business, not not in my own house. Now, it's one thing if you want to talk about um, I don't know, it's kind of one thing. If you talk about a place that isn't your primary residence, and so maybe maybe that's a distinction, um, or maybe it's not, but in your primary residence, you know, it just doesn't feel good to have uh have that regulated, you know. And I I think more people ought to just be out there with you know picket signs because if it's your house, it's your house, and you get to decide what happens on the inside.

SPEAKER_01 16:56

Here's where here's what we saw at the you know, so we went to the we had the we've been through it twice already, Arlington, Texas. They they banned it in pretty much in like 90, 99 of the city in short-term rental homes, right? So so in a little bitty spot around the stadiums, you can do it, but they just wanted us to renovate those crack houses that were there. But, anyways, that's another story altogether. Um, so so we've been through it with Arlington, we've been through it through Dallas also. They're gonna ban it in 100% of residential, they're banning Airbnb uh short-term rentals, whatever. It doesn't matter if you live there or don't live there, whatever. Um, so so my thing kind of lost my train of thought it happens every now and then. So um, yeah, we've been through this uh a few times, and what we noticed is in these these meetings that we would we were going to some of the meetings, right? And and the ones that we could go to, the ones in the evening that we could go to, but a lot of these meetings are happening in the daytime, you know. The the people that are doing you know, short-term rentals, we most of us got jobs, right? Or we got day jobs or we got commitments and stuff like that. But the people that could always show up was the older generation, and and you know, and so we they would they would um you know go to all the meetings, be in the ears of all these, they knew all the the you know city people by name, right? And and so they they held a lot of clout, in other words, and and you know what?

SPEAKER_06 18:18

A lot of those people are the ones that are, you know, well, depending on who you're talking about, are on fixed income, and they really ought to be, you know, the ones out there with the signs because it some of them were okay. Okay, I mean that that's that's the group that I think really has the most to lose. Um, because you know, what are they gonna do? Get a second job. I mean, you know, it's it's a very viable stream of income for or could be for a lot of people, and to just kind of blanket, you know, erase it without even considering maybe maybe you go case by case, or you know, maybe I could have been grandfathered in because I didn't have any uh, you know, any allegations. I didn't have any, you know, the police never came here. It was my neighbors didn't mind, you know. Maybe that could have been an exception, but

Pivoting to 28-day midterm rentals and summer-only availability

SPEAKER_06 19:12

cities have always been that way.

SPEAKER_01 19:13

Punish everybody for the crimes of a few, right? That's just how it's always been.

SPEAKER_06 19:16

Yeah, but you know what? My midterm situation is just fine. I I'm okay with that. Yeah, I'm not I'm not having it, I'm not letting them uh dictate that to me.

SPEAKER_01 19:27

So so you can get it pretty rent rented pretty good in the summer for like 28 days or more. It's just not hard.

SPEAKER_06 19:33

It's not well, it's different. I can't charge quite as much because I was charging, you know, $1,500 a night for my house. I can't do that times 28 or 30. You know, that's not yet. I haven't been able to find that person yet, but I'm looking. Um, but uh I do get um sometimes I get people who'll contact me and who'll say, you know, I don't need 28 days. I see you're only you know available for 28 days or more, but I need 10 days. And I'm like, call me. I'm like, I think that might be okay, you know. And uh and so that's happened a couple of times. I have gotten some longer stays. I've had a few people who um I live kind of centrally located to a bunch of uh large hospitals. So I've had a couple of families who had a family member uh who came to town for a procedure and they wanted to bring, you know, more parts of the family to be with that relative. And the person then couldn't travel directly after their procedure. So they were here for you know three weeks. One person was here for the 28 days. Uh so there are situations when it happens. I'm just not able to command quite as much as I as I did before. But you know, that's okay too. That's okay. Because I have just supplemented it with other units, you know.

SPEAKER_03 20:57

Oh now I have a question. Have you now have you expanded your portfolio outside of your home?

SPEAKER_06 21:03

Uh yeah. Well, you know, my family's always had a vacation rental. Um often on we would uh we would have guests, but a lot of times it would sit empty. And I mean, this dates back to when I was a teenager, and I could never get my family completely on board with it because they were like, oh, it's our family home, and you know, oh, our memories. And I was like, oh, we are leaving money on the table. This is not cool. Uh so periodically we'll rent that one. And I've picked up some um apartments and done some arbitrage, and uh, you know, which everybody knows is a riskier strategy. And so I do a little bit of that, but um, but I'm looking outside of Chicago because I'm looking outside of the US uh for a sort of you know an expat situation, depending on what happens politically uh in the next little while. So I'm you know, I'm not a To setting up shop again. I mean, it's I I as a realtor, you know, a lot of the skills that I have as a realtor translate to setting up a rental, right? I I can look at some comps and analyze them. I can stage a property. I know what the photos should look like. I know how to write the description. So a lot of those skills work. So I can pick those skills up and put them someplace else. I haven't because my youngest daughter's got to finish up some school. But once that happens, I can take these skills anywhere and I can replicate what I was doing here, you know.

SPEAKER_01 22:38

So you're talking about setting up units in Europe or other countries.

SPEAKER_06 22:43

Yeah, yeah. You know, if the US is going to make it so difficult, you know, then maybe maybe you don't want me here. I don't know. Maybe I need to go somewhere else and you know figure out a different plan. So I'm I'm giving it some real thought.

SPEAKER_03 22:59

So with you being like mainly 28 days, like what's your marketing like? Where do you market your property?

SPEAKER_06 23:06

Um, I am still on Airbnb, but of course I get limited visibility because you can't search me for anything less than 28 days. But I do have people, I do find people who want a shorter stay, but who will put in, I guess, flexible dates or longer dates because they'll find me. I'm still getting inquiries for less than 28 days. But um, so I'm still there, it's it's minimal. I have toyed uh off and on with the idea of uh direct book, which is probably what I should have done from the beginning. Uh, but again, since I'm limited to the the time frames where my daughter is not in school, it's a little bit tricky. It's a little tricky. Um, it's all a little bit tricky trying to work into those breaks that she has. Um, but I also I'm I do furnish finders and uh you know I do them, I'm do the midterm situation. It's just like I said, it's tough because I'm used to $1,500 a night and you know, over 30. That's so that's a lot of money. I wouldn't do it, but you know.

SPEAKER_03 24:14

So you said you're using furnish finder and you toyed with uh Airbnb for 28 plus days. Um, okay. So have you um like have you like got into like maybe the insurance housing who can pay a little bit more?

SPEAKER_06 24:29

I have, I have thought about that. Um, and I've done uh I had a couple of inquiries from

From one-off sales to teaching: why Pam quit traditional real estate

SPEAKER_06 24:35

that. But uh for the most part, during the last couple of years, my daughter's in high school. I'm shifting now to teaching. And uh and I think that's really kind of where all of my skills come together. I'm not ruling this out because I can't leave that money on the table, but I I want to build uh a scenario where teaching other others, especially women, to do what I've done um becomes the main source of my income. I've just I've always felt kind of I've always been like, ah no, there's some way I can uh be more useful uh to a community than you know, kind of selling houses one-off, right? Because in Chicago, if you're a realtor, you have to accompany every buyer um to every single house you see. And even if you have a vacant house, if you're the listing agent, you have to show that property. And so you are limited to how many transactions you can handle based on that number of hours in the day. So I was always wanting something more, and I think teaching is gonna kind of let me explore, you know, all the different things that I've done and help people and uh, you know, tell the city that can you go into that for a second?

SPEAKER_03 25:57

Are you saying if you're a listing agent in Chicago, you have to be the one to show the house? Right.

SPEAKER_01 26:02

Wow, what are we stupid rules for? I don't know.

SPEAKER_06 26:06

It is it's really restrictive. I mean, a lot of it has to do with um the downtown condo buildings, they don't want people uh kind of wandering around in the in the condo buildings, but you know, it's crazy because there's you know a listing agent and there's a buyer's agent, so there's two agents and the buyer conceivably showing a vacant property. Like, you know, I'm like, I I think you could look around and kind of figure this one out, you know, without me here, you know. There's still the light bulbs, uh, you know it's starting to change a little bit, but it it's been really a ridiculous, uh uh ridiculous situation. And you can't, and I see like in the suburbs, people are like, I don't show my properties. Are you kidding? Here's a lockbox, and uh in downtown we can't do that, so uh change is slow sometimes.

SPEAKER_01 27:00

I mean, there's there's places where they still make you you uh an attendant has to pump your gas for you. There's only one state left here, but like go to Mexico or places in Europe, they have to do it for you, you know. I'm saying not all not all the countries, but just just old old laws or old rules are hard to die sometimes, right?

SPEAKER_06 27:18

Let me tell you, when I started selling real estate in Chicago, you know, I don't know what you know about Chicago, but it was and it still is a pretty segregated place to be. And uh back in the day when I first started, uh the MLS did there was a Southside MLS and there was a north side MLS.

SPEAKER_03 27:40

Know what that means in Chicago.

SPEAKER_06 27:42

Go ahead, right? And if you lived on the south side and had clients who wanted to see a north side property, you better have a friend who worked on the north side because you had no access to those properties, and it literally wasn't until like 19, maybe 89, 90, early 90s, before uh the MLS merged into one MLS so that you know people from the South Side could I have access to north side properties. I mean, that's I would I know that was a while ago, but not as long ago as it should have been, you know.

SPEAKER_03 28:23

That was crazy. Funny thing is, my first time in Chicago was about three to four years ago, and uh yeah, the north side and south side, you can definitely tell the difference in Chicago real quick.

Redlining, the Green Book, and Chicago's dividing line at Congress Street

SPEAKER_03 28:34

Yeah. Well, Uncle was like, Yeah, because me and my wife, we went walking and we went to see the Michael Jordan statue, and then we went up to Navy Pier and all that. Okay, okay. We went north of that, and then we told him we went south. He was like, Yeah, it's a big difference. I was like, Yeah, you can tell real quick once you're on the north side of the south side.

SPEAKER_06 28:50

Yes, it's very to this day, it's still very different. Uh, you know, the resources are are very different, uh, just everything, property values, uh just is all still very different. It's starting to change, but uh dunno, not in every neighborhood, you know, it's it really is kind of neighborhood by neighborhood and is moving out from kind of the core. So if you live out here, you got a long ways to wait for it to get there, if ever. Uh so yeah, so at one time I was the only uh African-American real estate agent who sold properties downtown and on the north side. So I'm like, really? I mean, as for business, no, it was not, it wasn't a good thing for me because um I just didn't want to be the only anything, you know. I didn't want to be the only woman walking in that drafting class. I don't want to be the only one, right? And uh, you know, I I got stares and you know, just whatever. It's not like it was a hundred years ago. I mean, it was a minute ago, but it wasn't, you know, 1873 or something. It was.

SPEAKER_01 30:02

I've seen a theme here. You're you're a natural pioneer.

SPEAKER_06 30:06

Uh by default, but uh maybe a little unwillingly. I'm just not going to, I just won't put up with just anything. You can't just tell me anything and not have it make sense and have me go along with it. You know, you gotta come up with some serious, you know, argument for me to to buy something as crazy as any of that. And and nobody had an argument. I mean, there was literally like in Chicago, there was a dividing line, a street that that Northside agents did not sell beyond. Really? Because there's no actual physical barrier there, it's just a street. But everybody knew Michigan. No, it's Congress. Congress is uh uh is an east-west street, and so you know, everything yeah, north of that, nah, south of that. Okay, gotcha. And and there was no crossover, there was just me uh occasionally crossing over. But uh, but but you know, a lot of a lot of things have changed, and you know, and I'm hopeful, but uh talk about slow change.

SPEAKER_03 31:13

That's good though. I think Steve's right, you're a pioneer, man. You're the only one allowed to come across Congress, man. People see you on the other side, they're like, hey, Pam allowed over there, man. Right. Right.

SPEAKER_02 31:26

Hey, you want a house on the north side? Oh, you better call Pam. You're going to right.

SPEAKER_01 31:31

But the thing is, you might not want a house on the north side because you might not think that was a safe thing, or you know, it's just taken a long time to um to make these small changes, and uh you know obviously it reminds me of a story because you know, uh do you know of a band called Rage Against the Machine? Uh I don't know, it's a rock and roll band. Okay, so Tom Morello, guitar player, he's from well, he grew up in Chicago, and and his his dad is African African, his mom, you know, white, and she traveled around, had a baby with the African man, and then when they came back to the States, you know, without him, um, she was looking for a place to stay in Chicago, oddly enough. And she said that she had to go around as a white lady, she had to go around to this this one apartment complex or whatever, and talk to all the neighbors and talk to the the people that ran the place and introduce herself and introduce her son, and and it's so funny how this is how he said it. He goes, Yes, he's black, you know, because they didn't allow them to to to live in this this complex or whatever, but he's African black, so he's like exotic, you know. So that he was she had to try to sell it to the community to let her live there with her son, and I was like, Chicago, progressive Chicago?

SPEAKER_06 32:47

That doesn't make sense, and so yeah, we're heard that exotic thing before. That's you know, that is code right there.

SPEAKER_04 32:55

Yes, it is.

SPEAKER_06 32:57

So you can't put that one past me either, but but yeah, it's it was like that, it is like that, uh, you know, and that is actually why getting back to the short-term rental scenarios, you know, there are almost no short-term rentals left on the south side, but there's still some on the north side, you know, around Wrigley Field and some of those other um, you know, popular areas. I live on the south side, you know. I uh it's uh and I know this because I did the research when I had to go to court because I was like, well, hey, wait a minute, you know, I can't be the only one that you know can't do this when all these other listings still exist. And I know that they have uh, you know, they're they have there's a whole list of different criteria, and I know they weren't qualifying for the criteria. My only um, I don't know, fault was the zoning situation that dated back so so far. And I know it was about, you know, like boarding houses, like they didn't want boarding houses, um, you know, the old, you know, ones from the 40s or whatever, the flop houses, right?

SPEAKER_07 34:11

I'm like, oh, it's $1,500 a night, it's not a flop house, you know.

SPEAKER_06 34:16

It's so yeah, it's a bunch of old laws, it's a bunch of uh old thinking, and uh and it's and it's really unfortunate because it's costing people uh you know a viable livelihood. And oh, that's messed up.

SPEAKER_03 34:32

You're making me think of something here. Steve touched on it a little bit earlier, but you're talking about like how there's only a few left on the south side. See, because basically what Steve, so basically me and Steve were at the city council when they banged the gavel on what they were gonna do in Arlington. And so when they when they came out with the law saying, hey, well, we're just gonna allow it in the entertainment district, that's when I looked at Steve and I said that they're trying to gentrify it. And it and it made perfect sense because basically to build the Cowboy Stadium, they basically tore down, pushed out, you know, lower income people. They pushed them out so they could build that stadium, but they built the stadium up, got everything kind of nice around it, but they needed to expand out. So they let you do Airbnb in that area. So basically, so you can gentrify the area, which they're effectively doing right now. So that kind of makes me, it sounds like it's kind of redlining in Chicago a little bit. I won't know what it is. Okay, it is redlining. Yeah. So my question is this then like when you're in those city council meetings, I know you're all about women empowerment. Are there many African Americans in those meetings? No, no. Um, no. See, and that goes back to what's Steve's point. Like, when you ain't showing up, you give the people power, like the old people sitting up in there, they're complaining, but they that's they get the ear. It's a hundred of them.

SPEAKER_06 35:53

Yeah, but it's also about uh exposure and not knowing to show up, you know, not knowing you could host guests in your home and charge them $1,500, you know, a night. It is, and which is why I'm trying to, you know, I'm trying to go door to door and tell people, you know, you can do this and you can earn income doing this. And people have been doing it forever. And, you know, particularly, you know, if you look back at African American history and you see, and you know, about the Green Book, and you know about the migration up from the South, you know, African-American people didn't have a choice that they had to stay with other people in their homes. And so, of course, this dates back way, way, way before that. But, you know, so for the south, I say this, for the South Side residents, uh, you know, I don't know that everybody's seeing it as a uh six-figure potentially, you know, money-making situation. They just don't, they just haven't seen it. I didn't know. I was like, oh no, nobody can come and stay in my house. Are you kidding? So, you know, you don't know till you know.

SPEAKER_01 36:58

No, it is funny when you say that because it reminds me of going to one of those uh city city hall meetings, whatever, city council meetings, and and they had us divided at the meetings on the right, on the right side, it was all the older, angry, you know, mostly white citizens that didn't want it. Afraid, they were afraid, afraid, and then they did this thing, you know, most uh our side was all mixed up, you know. I had all the races that we were doing this, you know, Mexican, black, Asian, all kinds, you know, we were all mixed up, white even, you know, young, younger ones, and and um, but we were all it was such a it was such a you know a clear line that was that was there, but anyways, when they started to speak, you know, people got up to speak. There was and Michael was there, he's there was this one old I say redneck looking, you know, redneck too. And he literally got up there and said, you know, it's just they're bringing these people to our neighborhoods that are all different kinds of nationalities, and I couldn't believe what he he was like just being blatantly racist.

SPEAKER_06 38:01

It's it's fear and it's uh you know, I don't know, fear and real estate, they have a long history, but you know,

$1,500 a night for business travelers: printers, beer glasses, and no cooking

SPEAKER_06 38:09

but they shouldn't. They shouldn't. But um, you're not gonna give me to go down that road too much further. That's what this show is for. You don't want to hear all the what I got to say about this, but we do me and Steve started the show, baby. Short-term rentals from the other side. Yeah, I'm just saying, you know, uh, you know, redlining is real, it was real, it's still real.

SPEAKER_01 38:31

Uh, you know, for people that don't know of our listeners, can you explain what redlining is?

SPEAKER_06 38:36

So, so redlining is literally uh as though uh the city founders or whatever took a red line around the map and decided this neighborhood was gonna be for this population of people. And if you were a realtor and you wanted to show people in another area, you couldn't because I'll tell you how deep it went. Chicago used to have covenants in the deed that didn't allow uh the transfer of the deed unless it was from a white person to a white person. You know, so there were uh, you know, so as a result, everybody coming up from the south during the migration ended up in one of two areas, and that's it. And um and actually it's pretty much stayed that way until I would say the last 10 years, where it's starting to change. Um Hyde Park, which is where the University of Chicago is, and the Obama's home and and all that, uh is starting to be very diverse. And um, and the South Loop, which is just south of downtown, is also um a diverse part of the town. But uh further south, the south side is not the it's not the case on the west side at all.

SPEAKER_03 39:54

So uh, you know, and it's been hard, hard to watch. And to take a step further, that's kind of the reason why I kind of got into real estate to do to like redlining practices because that's how a huge wealth transfer in America didn't go to the African Americans, because they could basically redline a area on the map. And like, let's say um, if you were black and you wanted to buy there, because they they wouldn't say, Oh, you black, you can't buy sometimes they would just straight up say the insurance companies just wouldn't insure the house, so you can't get a mortgage on it. They wouldn't give you a loan.

SPEAKER_06 40:26

Yeah, you couldn't get a loan. So, you know, you know, how could you buy it for cash? You know, you're coming up from the south just to start over. So now you're stuck in a rental scenario in a neighborhood that is void of resources, uh, and it's just gonna continue to, you know, depreciate and uh be devalued. And I'll and now you have a ghetto, you know. So it's uh it's a tough reality. How about that?

SPEAKER_03 41:02

I'm I'm happy you bring him on because I I didn't even think Chicago, like how Steve said, I didn't even think Chicago, I mean, I noticed the differences between the north and the south, but like when you start going like into like the courtrooms and things of that nature, and like when it's time for city council meetings, it's very interesting how you know how that that dynamic is played out. Um, so one question I do have. So you because you rent, man, you're renting for 3,500 a night. So I'm I mean 1500. No, no, no, yeah.

SPEAKER_06 41:27

I wish it was 3,500 a night. I'd break the law for that.

SPEAKER_03 41:32

So, like what strategies like do you create? Like, how what kind of experience or unique experience do you create for your guests?

SPEAKER_06 41:39

Because $1,500 a night, that ain't that ain't no, it's a big chunk of uh, you know, I've surprised and I was so surprised by it that when I first that first trip that I took, I had it at $500 a night. And I was like, oh, nobody's coming here for $500 a night. And so it was just over the first couple of years that I built confidence uh to raise the price, but nobody ever, ever complained. Nobody ever asked me to negotiate my rate. Uh they just didn't. And it's largely because of the avatar, it's because it's these um corporate people, you know, with corporate money. And uh, you know, they expect to pay that kind of money in a hotel. And so it doesn't, you know, they don't even blink to do uh a home where everybody can come and gather after the conference and you know, hang out and debrief and have a kitchen and you know, parking and everything. So uh, you know, it was never a problem raising the price. What I did do once I realized the families weren't coming, I bought all these, you know, blow-up beach toys and all this stuff for the family I thought that was coming that didn't. Um, I did start to tweak my amenities to uh to better cater to who was actually coming, which were business travelers. So for instance, I had uh one of my bedrooms had twin beds because I'm like, oh, you bring your kids, they got twin beds. Well, unrelated colleagues do not want to share a room like that. So, right. So I pulled it out, put it in the queen bed, everything was good. And uh little tweaks like that, um, I I think sort of enhanced the experience. And uh, and and you know, and literally I am walking distance from that that center. So you don't have to have a rental car, you know, you don't have to um, I don't know if you don't have to Uber, you don't have to do anything, you just walk to the conference and come back. So location has a lot to do with my success, but I also I wrote my description to appeal to you know business travelers. Yeah, I got high speed internet, yeah. I have an office, yeah, it's got a printer, yeah. You know, you know, you could be totally set up as a business traveler in my home and then also have the space to gather and hang out and and cook. I'll tell you, business travelers do not cook. They make frozen pizzas and they drink a lot of liquor and uh they don't they don't they're not here to cook, so I never have like the wear and tear on the house is really, really low because they're gone all day at the conference and they're really just kind of sleeping here and and drinking a lot of beer. They drink a lot of beer, but that's it, and that works, that works for me because I don't have you know, I had a couple of families come in uh now and then and they're making you know big, huge meals, and I come back at the kitchen's all you know a mess. I'm like, Where are my business travelers? Bring them back.

SPEAKER_03 44:38

I'm the same way. I I do not like uh the what is it called? The um leisure travelers, man. The business travelers, I love them leisure travelers, they a headache and leave a mess, always the next tree, like dang carry up and leave.

SPEAKER_01 44:50

No, I'll cook some curry fish up in your place.

SPEAKER_06 44:53

Oh, I'm telling you, the kitchen would I would just be like, Oh, what's happened here? And when the business travelers are here, all I'm gonna do is you know, empty the garbage with all the beer and the you know pizza boxes, so that's a lot easier.

SPEAKER_01 45:07

You know, one thing that's like I mean, you you just went over it real quickly, but I you know it's a big, it's a big tip, and it doesn't seem like a big tip, but it is. But a printer, I never even thought about it putting printers at my places. That's a big thing, you know. People want to go do you know, go to whatever business thing and they print out some papers, they don't have to go to uh uh Kinko or whatever, FedEx, whatever place to print out stuff, print it out right there, have extra inks there just in case, you know.

SPEAKER_06 45:33

They love that one they because there's always some kind of brochure or some kind of signage for a booth that's some kind of something that uh that they need, and you know, the printers right there, they can uh scan stuff is one of those four and one, whatever. And I already had it because I use it for my business, so it was not a purchase for me, but it was it's a little detail that I think you know, it's all the little details, right? That make the that make difference. Yeah, so that was just a detail that worked out um really nicely. That and all the beer classes. I have like a collection of different kind of beer glasses, so you have an assortment of them. So it's just knowing who's coming to stay, knowing your avatar and um and making sure you think like them

The hairdryer lesson and other avatar blind spots

SPEAKER_06 46:20

to think about the um the needs that they have. Like here's what's funny. When I first started, I didn't um because you know, I don't blow dry my hair out and do the whole thing. So I didn't have uh a hairdryer because African American women travel with everything they need for their hair, they don't expect you to have anything for their hair. And so I got called out by someone who's like, you know, I don't have uh I need a hairdryer. So I, you know, I got a hairdryer in every bathroom now because I get it, it's just not something I thought about because I don't use a hairdryer like that. So you gotta think like your guests, not like you.

SPEAKER_03 47:03

That's that's a fact, man. I remember we first uh so never mind, I ain't gonna say it in the chat.

SPEAKER_06 47:09

I'm just saying, I didn't know, I didn't know to do that. I didn't know how critical that was, you know, it's critical fairly.

SPEAKER_03 47:15

I know, because like when me and Mahogany first started, right? Like, you know, African American, it is true. Me and Steve used to talk about this a lot. Like most of the time, because most of the time when people who book, depending on your location, you know, some of my places were um, some of them are like in African-American communities, right? So me and my wife, we picked them up, you know, most of the time people would book that look like us, right? But our places that were in a you know mixed area, anybody would book, right? So we didn't know that you need to have those little things in there to catch hair from going and clogging up the toilet because when we wash ours, there it stays in our hair, you know. So we had to learn that. So we we had to learn it. That's true. You have to learn your one little thing. This is the cool thing about it, though. You learn your target avatar and you learn about you know different cultures and how they operate, you know, like Steve said with the curry, you know, we didn't feel like, oh dang, this thing just the easiest smell to get up at.

unknown 48:12

Right.

SPEAKER_06 48:12

And I'm not mad at any of it, I just didn't know. And uh and and now I know, so you know. It's just another, it's kind of another like, you know, benefit from hosting, right? I I have had people from all over the world coming for these conferences and things, and uh, and I had a whole, you know, we had a whole library worth of art books. And so I got a message from one guest that they're like, I really love your library. I don't, I never called it a library, but uh I really love your library. I read through some of your books. I, you know, you must be interesting people. You got these law books and all this stuff, and I was like, those are just that's just the bookcase where we keep our books, you know. I never thought of it as an amenity. But um, but these folks did. In fact, one person came and they asked if they could take a book and leave a book in its place. And I was like, Oh, we have a whole you know lending library going on here. This is great, you know. And I didn't know that was gonna happen either.

SPEAKER_03 49:12

So it's always the small stuff you just don't ever see coming, like the picture. Like a while ago, I had a guy book with this a long time ago, Steve members' story. I I I I took pictures of everything in the house, right? I took pictures of like the cabinet, the where the spices were and all that. And this dude booked, you know, and he was like, and this is back in the day, I think you couldn't really show your face on Airbnb or something. So basically he booked and he was like, Oh, yeah, man, I booked with you because I knew you were black. You had the Lowry season thought. So caters, you know, you'll never know what grabs people's attention. So it's always good to be detailed in those pictures because it's the little slightest thing, you know. You know, he wanted some Lowry season thought, apparently.

SPEAKER_07 49:52

And you had it for him. So I think that's good hosting.

SPEAKER_01 49:56

Yeah, I was like, I got some hot sauce too. I got it all. And the devices in this mug.

SPEAKER_06 50:04

Uh but you know, it's it's really cool because you realize that uh, you know, there are commonalities and and there are differences in the cultures, and it's all good, you know, it's all good. For real.

SPEAKER_01 50:18

Oh, you know, I didn't come on here to be, you know, offensive or no, you know, yeah, we say a lot of crazy stuff. We you've been listening. We say crazy stuff.

SPEAKER_07 50:29

Yes, yeah. I didn't think I was gonna get in it, though.

SPEAKER_03 50:33

I'm pretty sure our uh white hosts have learned how to cater to black people and Mexicans listening to this podcast. So we can help each other out.

SPEAKER_06 50:40

I'm just saying, I I well sometimes I come home and there's so much hair on the floor in my bathroom. I'm like, somebody is dying or something because like you said, our hair doesn't fall out like that so much.

Should you remove your family photos? When art reveals who you are

SPEAKER_07 50:54

I'm like, oh does do you know? You are sick because look at all this hair. I hope you cut that out.

SPEAKER_03 51:05

Um black woman hair falling out like that, boy. Somebody about to get cussed out.

SPEAKER_01 51:12

But nah, oh man, where were we at? Um, we're talking about a lot of things. Uh, one of the things, you know, uh on the subject of the Lowers Lowry's thing, that's one of my favorite ones that we talked about on the show. But I used to on early on, we started Airbnb out of our house, you know. But I mean, we had moved out to another house. We in the previous one we turned into an Airbnb because you know, Micah said, do it, man, do it. So good, yeah. And so that's what got me in the game. Oh, like six or seven years ago, it was a while back, and um, and so I put a picture of me and my family on there, you know, Hispanic family, and as as the as the profile picture, and lo and behold, most of the people that booked with us were Hispanic people, you know, and and Micah said the same phenomenon happened with him, and it's a lot of um, you know, it's not, you know, people call you know, say racism or whatever. I don't know, it's people keep it real, people feel comfortable with being around their own people, you know, and it's no exception when someone's booking an Airbnb or a short-term rental or whatever. And some people, and and we've known people that are minorities, black or hispanic, that'll put a picture of a white person as their profile picture, yeah. You know, it it's it's crazy, you know. People you know claim that you know it doesn't exist anymore, but it it it's pretty it exists.

SPEAKER_07 52:33

Oh, it exists, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 52:35

It does.

SPEAKER_03 52:36

You know, we've we've tested all types of profile photos, man. It's it's it's interesting how it plays out. Very interesting.

SPEAKER_06 52:42

Well, you know, I get I get the question all the time. Uh, should I, and I get this as a realtor too, should I remove my photos and my art? And my position has always been, you know, no. I mean, that's this is your house. Now you don't want to have, you want to allow the guest or the buyer to be able to see themselves in the property, but I don't think you need to, you know, whitewash it uh and uh make it into something that it's not, but that's just my opinion because there are other realtors that will tell you to make it as neutral as possible.

SPEAKER_03 53:16

But that's actually a really good thing because I actually had something that happened with mine due to that. So my mom, she used to set up my short-term rentals, but she had an art company based out of Ghana. So what happened was she had an art company based out of Ghana, so she would get all this art, the art she couldn't sell. She three, four X this art, she's making killing doing it. So the art she didn't sell, she was like, Mike, I just put it in your Airbnb if you need it, and I'll just put it in there. So I didn't think nothing of it. I'm like, dude, it's free art, go ahead, you know, put it in there. And I was like, shoes, and I was like, if they want to buy it, I would tell them if you want to buy it, kind of like with Steve did, you can buy it. And this is like stitched from really nice African art. So I had this guest, and they were just complaining and complaining, saying everything was wrong. This is a couple years ago, and I was like, dang, man. So, you know, you're getting on your cleaners and you're getting on everybody. My cleaner went over there and said, uh, everything's fine. So then my handyman went over, she's saying stuff's broken. You know, I think like a wall plate that went out. And he goes over there to fix it and he calls me and he's like, Man, this guest, are you sure this guest is complaining about making all these complaints? I'm like, Yeah, man, he's making these complaints. He's like, he's like, bro, there's nothing wrong with your house. And I'm like, You sure? He's like, I just walked it. He goes, now one thing I will say, I don't know, he goes, I don't know what this, who this guest was, but he goes, Are you sure they're not trying to sabotage you? And I'm like, why would they be doing that? He was like, Well, looking at the art in here, I mean, he goes, I love it, but I'm just saying, he they can probably tell who you are, like your culture due to the art because it was all African Ghanaian art. And I had never thought about that at the time until he brought it to my attention. And you know, I didn't really know. And I also have like a Kobe Bryant room in there, and she had left us a review, and there wasn't really nothing I could do about it. But when my people went over there, they just there was nothing wrong. But that is, I don't wouldn't say something to consider. It's just if that's something that avatar doesn't come. Yeah, if that avatar doesn't come, then it's like uh, you know what I mean?

SPEAKER_06 55:12

That's why you have to make a personal decision, and I personally um would not change my home. But my home is uh a lot of it is about our travel. So, you know, we've been to Africa several times. So I have African prints and things, but we've also been to, you know, I've got a mask from New Orleans, I've got uh uh pieces from you know Mexico, I've got a lot of different things, um, because it's part of our story, but I'm I wouldn't change any of it for anyone. It's just that's just not what I'm gonna do. But yeah, I don't trade mine.

SPEAKER_03 55:48

Yeah, I didn't trade mine. I kept it up, but I never thought about it until he brought that up. I was like, hmm, maybe that is what they're doing. But all their other guests, I mean, that's been the property's been up for three, four years now, and we got the same art in there, but it's interesting.

SPEAKER_01 56:01

I guess we've all seen that story online about the family who was trying to sell their house and get get it appraised. And the first time they went to get it appraised, you know, it was a black family and they had all their pictures up and everything, and they gave it a low, a low number. So, what they did, they changed all the pictures out, put like a white family was living there and all that stuff. Another appraiser came out and appraised it a hundred thousand dollars higher.

SPEAKER_06 56:22

Right, that's real. That's happening right now. Yeah, that's real.

SPEAKER_03 56:28

Yeah, man, it's wild stuff goes on, wild stuff goes on, but knowing your target avatar is huge.

SPEAKER_01 56:34

Yes, yeah, you love being an agent, don't you?

SPEAKER_06 56:39

You know, it's it's interesting because I'm an introvert, and so is was always a I would always have to extrovert to be with clients, and so it was always

Why Pam now tells clients: don't sell Granny's house

SPEAKER_06 56:52

I don't know, introverts get really exhausted by having to do that. So I would have a whole full day of showing, I have to come home and just you know lay down for a while, and so it's interesting that I've been doing it so long because it is so outside of my natural personality, but um, but I enjoy helping people make smart decisions about real estate, and then that's why short-term and midterm rentals, that's smart thinking. And you know, I spent a whole career telling people, yeah, sell your house, I'll sell your house, no problem. Let's buy you a new house, get a bigger one, you know, that whole thing. And now I'm like, don't don't sell your house, you know. I'm like, put a short-term rental in your house. Don't, you know, people whose whose parents pass away and the first thing they want to do is sell the house. I'm like, don't sell Granny's house, you know, make it a midterm rental. And so, you know, that's why I can't really actively sell real estate so much anymore, because I I don't I don't want people to sell their homes. There's a there's a better way, or at least another way that they could consider.

SPEAKER_03 58:00

Love it.

SPEAKER_01 58:01

That's deep because I mean you could make money selling their houses, but you're you're trying to direct them in a a wealth-building path. That's awesome.

SPEAKER_06 58:08

You know, you can make money doing a lot of things, and uh, but you got to live with yourself, you know. And I I just want people to make smart decisions, I want them to open their minds to the I to the you know, just the idea of it. Like so many people are just like, ew, not my house, you know, that's weird, and somebody's in my bed and this whole thing. Now they don't think about when they go to a hotel and somebody's been in that bed, you know, a hundred times more times, you know, than in your short-term rental. Uh, but I just want them to consider it, and maybe it's not for everybody, and in fact, it's not for everybody, but for those who uh who can get past kind of the emotional aspect of it being their home, you know, it's it's viable, it is a viable low barrier to entry um income potential, and and I just want more people to think about it.

SPEAKER_03 59:00

I agree, I agree. Uh uh.

SPEAKER_01 59:03

That's what we're here for.

SPEAKER_03 59:04

Yeah, that's my soapbox.

SPEAKER_06 59:06

That's my speech.

SPEAKER_03 59:09

I love it. I do. I think there's a lot of uh opportunities coming forward, and uh, I think people should uh definitely be on the lookout and definitely get into it. I think there's a lot of opportunities coming.

SPEAKER_01 59:20

No, I will say that um, so you were uh or you are or you were a real estate attorney. I am you are okay.

SPEAKER_06 59:29

I am, yeah. I've been an attorney for a really long time. I don't practice law anymore, I just have the information. So, like I said, you can't get anything past me.

SPEAKER_01 59:38

So that being said, that's why I wanted

14% interest rates and the return of seller financing

SPEAKER_01 59:41

I was excited uh one of the reasons to get excited as to get you on the show and ask you these things was um so we're getting into more um owner fine buying owner financing and buying or seller financing and subject to. Now, what what do you know about those two? I mean, if you have you've done deals like that, subject to and owner financing, uh what can you tell us about those?

SPEAKER_06 1:00:03

I'll tell you this. When I first started selling real estate, interest rates were 14%. And every single deal I did was financed by the seller because who was gonna go to a bank and get a 14% interest rate, right? On a mortgage. Uh, so I, you know, I did a lot of them. And um, and and now as rates creep up, I think it's going to come back. The problem is um people don't always feel comfortable with it, but you know, it's a contract, and uh, you know, you get a solid contract. It's a very viable way, it's a viable out for the seller, and it's a viable in for the buyer. And as long as you have that contract in place, you know, do it.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:51

No, I like that. I like that. And you and you mentioned because especially because rates have gone up a lot, I've seen it more and more. Um, you know, I I used to talk to agents, didn't even know what subject to was or or how to structure, oh, we don't do owner financing here, we don't do this one. It's just because interest rate was so low for so long, you know, especially the new ones that got in, you know, they didn't even consider doing something like that.

SPEAKER_06 1:01:12

Well, yeah, I mean, rates have been so good for so long, but back in the day when they weren't, that's all we did. And even if the agent doesn't know how to do it, your attorney should be able to put it together for you. So once your agent finds you that property, it's time to shift to your attorney anyway. So, you know, have don't let the agent's uh inexperience keep you from doing the deal, you know.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:34

I like that.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:35

Now you still let's say you know, once you invite your attorney to put it together, you still got to close at a title company.

SPEAKER_06 1:01:43

Um but that's okay.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:47

Yeah, it's like a couple grand, you know. Yeah, uh two or three grand. Okay, cool. So so you you've done those. That's cool. You have experience in that. And and subject two. Do you know a lot about subject two? I haven't done a lot of that.

SPEAKER_06 1:02:00

No, I've done more the traditional, just the straight up seller holds uh small a part or you know, a part of a mortgage uh for a designated amount of time. And and uh a lot of times back in the day, those would then get converted into traditional mortgages. Um but sometimes not. You know, it depends on how long the seller is uh willing to hang on in the transaction. You know, some sellers might just be like, I'm trying to be done with this and don't want to hold it for a long time, but those are the ones I've done.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:33

So how did you get into staging?

Staging psychology: the moment a buyer decides to buy

SPEAKER_06 1:02:37

You know, as because I've seen properties who with a little bit of staging could be really here's here's my example. I've sold a lot of my own properties and I've staged them myself, right? And I have gotten I've I've been able to charge so much more than other people with the same house. Like I'm in a townhouse, so it's the same house, right? But mine, you know, has been staged and it's we've had problems several different times having it appraised because it the purchase price was so high, it didn't make sense compared to the other sales. So we had to kind of finesse that, but it has been all about how you present the property, you know, how you take the photos, you know, like there can't be a load of dirty clothes on the floor when you take your photos, and you know, you can't have the toilet seat up. I mean, there's a lot of small kind of things that you can do to um enhance the photos, which then enhance the you know perception of value. It's that's just how it is, you know. The psychology of working with the buyer is fascinating because you can tell when you can tell the moment they make a decision to buy, because they're looking around and they stop, and then they start saying, Well, my couch could go over there and I could put the bookcase right here, and and then you know they're ready to buy the house, they've moved in emotionally. So you know, as an agent, you're just you're walking around watching for that, you know. When do you place your when you place your furniture? I'm gonna pull out my contract and we're gonna get it done.

SPEAKER_04 1:04:21

Nice, nice.

SPEAKER_06 1:04:23

And it works very similarly with um the way you put together your okay. I'm sorry.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:32

It went out again.

SPEAKER_06 1:04:34

I don't I don't even know what is going on. It's like it's like there's a battery failing or something, but I have the battery plugged in.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:45

Okay, you're back.

SPEAKER_06 1:04:46

Okay, I apologize. Um, but but it works very similarly when people are looking at your listing, like on Airbnb. You know, you gotta have your first five photos, gotta stop them. And they've gotta say, okay, look at that. I can see us all, you know, sitting on this couch, I can see us in front of this fireplace, whatever, I can see us in this backyard. Once they start seeing themselves there.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:08

Because uh we we have a friend of the show, Shannon, and he um he has a place in um in um Streepport, and he had these professional pictures made, right? And and he um and on picture number 25 or 27, he had a you know, I was looking to him just making sure everything was good because I kind of mentoring him how to how to get his start in the in Airbnb short-term rentals, and um I'm like picture number 27. I was like, dang, you got a really nice patio with really nice patio furniture, got a nice cover. How come it's way back here? And he's like, Oh, I don't know, I just you know put the pictures that way, how they sent me, you know, the thing. I just put them like that. I said, dude.

SPEAKER_06 1:05:45

No, no, no, you got to sequence your pictures, yeah. The whole thing has to be thought through. You gotta do a tour of the house, you gotta have, you know, your first five, and then you gotta walk people through, you know, room by room in a way that makes sense so they understand the flow of the house. There's a whole

SPEAKER_01 1:06:00

you know if people knew yeah if people knew you know what really goes into it or what could go into it you spend a lot more time on your listing and your staging and your lighting and yeah you'd spend a lot more time because you'd make a lot more money you know on the other end it would be worth it it would be worth it oh big time and I and I so I said let's try this I said put that because he wouldn't get in no bookings I said put that um patio picture as your first picture the big you know and then you have your other four that are right there and and um and and sure just try it out and he like I swear like that later that day he got a long booking I don't know or you know semi-long seven eight days whatever and he's yeah I'm coming to town for this oh I just saw that patio and I just pictured us out there hanging out barbecuing and all this stuff they had a barbecue out there too and he like you see like you said they pictured themselves on that patio you know doing because that you're telling a story right and so I thought that was that was that was cool man because yeah you you show your um what what sets you apart your accessories and stuff like that yep that's how it goes I mean that's that's how it goes that's what you have to do to tell the story and to

Home Share Side Hustle Summit - March 7-9, virtual and free

SPEAKER_01 1:07:10

convey you know the feelings and the you know the experience uh that the people are gonna have that's how you do it nice nice so you have a big expo coming up I have a big summit coming up a summit yes a summit it's gonna be a virtual summit it's for women but you know I'm equal opportunity so anybody uh who is interested I'm going to um have I think 24 speakers we're gonna do some live segments we're gonna have a wellness segment we're gonna have a pajama party we're gonna do a lot of fun things because life's too short you gotta have fun wherever you can and uh but I'm gonna be teaching uh I'm gonna be overcoming some of the objections that I hear a lot about people who can would consider hosting but who are afraid or worried about safety or you know worried about you know somebody in their bed and the whole thing we're gonna over we're gonna go through take you through so that you overcome those objections so that you start to see yourself um as a as a short term or midterm rental host and uh we take you from where you are now to where you can begin the actual process of hosting.

SPEAKER_06 1:08:22

So that's gonna be March 7th through the ninth is free. I will have some um upgrades available some um some extra stuff some swag bag stuff um that'll be available and uh it's gonna be called the Home Share Side Hustle Summit.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:42

Nice yeah is it mostly for women or is it for anybody?

SPEAKER_06 1:08:46

I mean anybody can come but you know I focus on women because I feel like I can speak to some of the um aspects of hosting that are you know related to women like one time I had you know six burly navy SEALs show up as my guests and you know I was like okay here they are and you know and it's so I feel like I I can relate better to some of the fears women might have uh with hosting so I primarily focus on women but you know I will teach anybody how to host I you know I want everybody to learn how to do it.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:23

That's what's nice yeah tell my wife about it she should uh oh yeah never know I might be in there my PJs too we'll see I'm gonna have a you know what is it Pam's jammy jam so you know so come on a little wine going on a little yeah drink a drink looking for a wine sponsor right now I'm like let's just have a good time let's get you the information but let's not make it overwhelming let's just you know relax you know I got you you need a vodka sponsor holla at me I got one okay okay you're gonna go in there jumping around up and down like uh Tony Robbins or what you know I'm kind of low key I don't know if I could do all that I'm more of the wine glass type but you know who knows I don't you know I can't make any promises and I won't jump around I don't know but that's what it takes you know whatever it takes you got a real soothing jazz jazzy voice I've just you know I'm low key I'm low key Pam that's that's it low key Pam doing big things low key pam just you know low key well awesome aside from that where can people find you Pam you know I have a website pamholt.com I'm trying to keep it simple for everybody uh I have a freebie that if you are thinking about becoming a host is this backwards I don't know no okay uh you know I've got this guide for you it'll take you through some mindset questions it'll take you through um earnings potential earnings I've done a chart like depending on where you are in the country kind of the average uh nightly rent rental amount I've got a list of amenities that you need to start off with and uh a bunch of other things that if you're kind of on the fence which kind of just thinking about it get the guide start there come to the conference get a glass of wine let's just let's just chop it up damn it the camera just went out again for for those that are listening haven't oh I'm sorry camera issues no no we we curse on this show sometimes okay but damn damn it's not really a curse word but um yeah not for what we did yeah we say some bad ones I think Apple has us as explicit lyrics so yeah we we keep it real pan uh hey you know I'm okay with that it's so great to have you on and and and what you know it's always great to have a woman come on and from the women's perspective in this industry and and the crazy thing is there's so many women that are doing this and so many minorities that are doing this you know we we got into both topics and and um to me I think the city would really embrace something like that that's so diverse like a business that's that's come about that's so diverse is a minority you know all all ethnicities are doing it all genders are doing it and and um it's a shame that they aren't embracing it more but you know those old stogies are going to be gone pretty soon anyways and we'll you know it'll you know I've offered to set up an educational platform for them so you know if they want to teach people how to do it right you just need to call me and uh you know we can do this we can learn how to do it well it can be all good I love that well thank you so much Pam uh we look forward to the summit we look forward to you know having you on again see yeah and oh where can they get the mindset guidebook oh well that's on my website pamhold.com it'll pop up as a as a pop up yeah thank you very much it's been fun i've you know I've been watching you know from the background for a long time so I'm glad to finally get to meet you guys and uh you know chop it up a little bit it's always yeah good to hear that people that listen to us even with our explicit rating they continue to listen to us so yeah thank you for being along I'm not

Wrap-up and where to find Pam Holt

SPEAKER_01 1:13:18

scared I'm not scared you know thank you Pam take care bye bye bye bye you too bye so that was a good episode I love the perspective about the different perspectives in this short term rental space but uh touched on some heavy topics yeah we did we did we did but in a nice way we kept it we kept it real but you know why go out there and and pretend you know we we we it's good to talk about the the hard things to talk about a lot of shows might stay away from that stuff but we we we hit we hit it straight on head on yeah that that that that's why we have the explicit because we talk about it all man we talk about it all we go in the places that most people don't go you know so it is what it is and uh we ain't no uh what do they call it no surface level shit we talk about what really goes on you know I'm not trying to call Apple iTunes out or whatever for tagging us with that but I know a lot of shows that ain't so colorful like us and uh that don't have that tag and they cuss on there so I don't know.

SPEAKER_03 1:14:15

Are you talking about Joe Rogan now playing not that one he's on the Spotify now but there are shows out there that they do cuss you know and they're not as colorful as us I'll just say that and they don't they don't get hit with that tag so thanks thanks Apple thanks Apple we see what you're doing as colorful as used the power there you go as that be well this has been another great episode man 279 in the books where can people find us Mike find us on Instagram TikTok send us the email info livelet thrive.com mike at livelet thrive.com steve at live let thrive.com and thank you for continuing to being a listener and make sure y'all hitting that subscribe button below hit that subscribe button join our email list all that good stuff hit our link tree man and thank y'all for continuing to listen we are oh share share share share it's all about you know gotta take the power back there you go live let thrive yeah y'all go go to Apple and complain tell them to get rid of that explicit shit bullshit soccer mom turned it out of it no soccer mom's cool they love us they're probably slapping their kids put on Mike and Steve all right y'all see y'all on the flip peace thank you for tuning in to this week's episode of Live Let Thrive be sure to tune in next week for all the latest in the world of Airbnb and all that entails by the