Cold open

SPEAKER_00 0:00

Welcome to Live Let Thrive, a podcast about the Airbnb life, the share economy, and everything in between. Here are your hosts, Micah and Steve.

SPEAKER_01 0:11

Hello, hello, hello, and welcome back to another exciting episode of Live Let Thrive. I am Stevie Stacks coming at you from Fort Worth,

Jasper Ribbers' origin story and Get Paid for Your Pad

SPEAKER_01 0:21

Texas. And this is your favorite. Favorite, along with Jaspers. I have a special guest today. Uh favorite short-term, mid-term, long-term rental podcast in the world coming at you from Fort Worth. Like I said, this is 287, episode 287. And we have a special guest today. And he is a legend in the STR community. He is Jasper Rivers from uh Get Paid for Your Pad, man. He's been doing it for longer than we've been doing. You're inspiration for us to start a podcast a long time ago, man. And I'm so excited to speak to you. Way back then when we did our first interview with you. Uh we just started our our podcast, and then you, you know, you had yours established for a while, and there wasn't very many um short-term rental podcasts, and we were only two of a handful. Maybe there was like three or four or five. Um, but we were always at the top, me and you, uh, and it's pretty cool. And it's a lot more um podcasts out there that do that cover short-term rentals, and we've we've branched off from that. You and I uh uh we cover a lot more than just short-term rentals, and it's pretty cool. So welcome to the show, Jasper. Uh, I'm I'm so happy to have you on, man.

SPEAKER_03 1:34

That's a good intro, man. I appreciate it. I think the first time I remember when you started your podcast. I was I think I was on the one of the first episodes, but I think your uh your beard wasn't as gray back then.

SPEAKER_01 1:45

Ah, yeah, yeah. And you had more hair. It was uh neither was mine. Yeah, and then you finally got married. That's cool. Congratulations.

SPEAKER_03 1:56

A little changed, a little changed.

SPEAKER_01 1:58

Yeah, so so back then, man, um, short-term rentals was kind of uh is kind of a new thing, and and you explained your story. You can you can brush up your story, you can go over it a little bit on this show. You know, you can always go back and see Jasper's original episode on our um yeah, early teens probably. But um, yeah, go ahead and uh tell us uh a little refresher on your story, what got you into short-term rentals?

SPEAKER_03 2:21

Yeah, 100%. Uh yeah, this is back in 2012, uh, when I uh decided to travel

From one Amsterdam apartment in 2012 to launching Freewild

SPEAKER_03 2:29

around the world and uh I was renting out my just my one apartment in Amsterdam long term, and I realized that wasn't ideal. So I tried this new thing called Airbnb, and it just you know immediately took off. Um, I recognized that you know there was very little information out there on the topic, so I decided to uh put together all my notes and uh publish a book, pay the three pads, start a podcast. This is back in 2014, so we're almost a decade in over the years. Done uh a lot of different things. Um, but right now, uh, me and my business partner Eric Miller, we're focused on uh building a new uh short and rental hospitality brand called Freewild, uh, which we launched um just in October last year. So uh we are focused on bringing a uh unique and modern shorter rental experience to uh traditional vacation rental markets, so think mountains, beaches, things like that. You can check us out uh on Instagram, FreeWild. That's freewild with a W Y L D. So free wild, but with uh with a Y instead of an I. And um, yeah, that's what we're passionate about uh right now, about you know, really uh bringing like a scaling a really unique short-on rental brand in the in the industry.

SPEAKER_01 3:45

And that's cool how you're bringing it back to what it used to be, you know, the the vacation rental market instead of the traditional vacation rental market because this stuff's been going on way before we started doing you know Airbnb's out of our houses uh or condos and stuff like that in in the in the suburbs before while it was all legal still. But what what drove y'all to to take it back to just doing in the in the traditional vacation rental markets?

SPEAKER_03 4:11

Yeah, yeah. I mean, it was it was mostly uh the brainchild of my my business partner, but you know, we partnered back in 2020, I think it was. Uh we recognized that uh there was a need for education, so we came together. We started a company called Overnight Success, where we you know we have courses and masterminds and stuff. Um, he he at the time he he built like uh a huge um company in San Diego. He had like 120, 130, maybe 150 listings. But you know, then COVID hit and uh we had a mastermind with all these like large operators that we were we were meeting like virtually on Zoom, you know, um and everyone was like panicking during COVID, right? And uh we were trying to help these companies stay alive. And through that process, we kind of we kind of realized that you know, in order to in order to be successful, or what was lacking in our industry, we felt like was really like uh a strong brand, you know, like something unique that people can really attach to, where you have you're just bringing something to the industry that that doesn't really exist. And it it was interesting because I remember we were talking about we were talking about like what's your favorite hotel brand, and everybody has their favorite hotel brands, right? I love Shangri-La, for example. Shangri-la hotels in Asia are amazing. There's a there's a hotel called um the Citizen M that I that I really like, where they call their guests citizens, and it's you super unique and you know, really awesome brand. But when you ask people, you know, what's your favorite short-term rental brand? You know, everyone says Airbnb, which is just a marketing channel, right? But no one really no one really has like favorite short-term rental brands, and and we just kind of recognize that uh there was an opportunity uh to bring like a a new a new brand to the short-term rental space where we're focusing on like the modern traveler who kind of wants the standards and the the world-class experience um that like the you know the top hotel chains bring, but they want to stay in those traditional markets, right? The traditional vacation rental markets. And you've I'm sure you've been to a lot of these markets. Uh, you know, there's there's a very typical inventory in those markets, like where we are in Idawald, for example, it's it's a mountain area, so you know you get the the classic cabins uh out there, but you don't really have like uh a modern, you know, a modern experience, right? Where you have great customer service, you have you know technologies there, um, design interior design in inside of the units, you don't really find that in those markets, and so that's what we're you know, that's what we're decided to uh to develop.

SPEAKER_01 6:57

Nice, nice. And you know what comes to mind because you're

Building a short-term rental brand people remember, like Marriott Bonvoy

SPEAKER_01 7:00

saying your favorite hotel chains or whatever, and and and I know they're thinking about this too, because uh as for example, Marriott, that just jumped to my mind. And what do they have to like compete in this kind of like Airbnb world that we're living in now? They created Bonvoy, right? And they have really cool commercials. If you've seen the commercials, you know, if you go you fly on the airplanes a lot, they always show them on the airplanes, but you know, sign uh go sign up for Bon Boy or or check out Bon Voy, and it shows it just it doesn't even, you know, it shows the stories, it doesn't even show like the inside of the I mean it might show like the inside of a room or something, but that's not the point. The point is a grandpa flying somewhere like uh on the beach to to see his grandkids that he ain't seen in a while, or or a married couple or lovers or whatever that's painting the story, what Bon Boy is. And I was I think they've done a good job at of it. And so I think I like what you're saying that you're trying to paint uh a brand and is something in the mountains or or the beaches or wherever it is, and people and and then of course exemplary comp customer service and something that's not just hey, it's an Airbnb, right? Uh, you know what you're gonna get, or you you don't know what you're gonna get, but with with your company, people will know exactly what they're gonna get.

SPEAKER_03 8:17

Exactly. Yeah, that's exactly it. You know, and it's it's interesting because like when you talk to people who don't like to um stay as a short-term rental, they then you ask them why, it's usually exactly that. It's usually like, yeah, well, you I never know what to expect, you know. I got I got seven vacation days in a year, you know what I mean? Um I'm go I'm traveling somewhere, I don't want to roll the dice on whether the host is gonna be communicating, or you know, like you know, they don't want to gamble uh and risk it. So they they book that's why they booked the Marriott, right? That's why they booked the four seasons because they just know okay, it's it's you know exactly what you're getting, right?

SPEAKER_01 8:54

Oh hey, how y'all doing? Stevie Sachs here from Live Let Drive. And I thought I'd give a quick shout-out to my buddy Brian Wynn over at themusecoffee.co. Man, this is some good stuff. Brian's a longtime listener of the show, fellow entrepreneur, and he's been sending us coffee for a while now. And this is some really, really good coffee from the best places on earth, best beans on earth, freshly roasted and sent to your front door in a couple days, and you'll know what I'm talking about. So, my buddy Brian, Brian wins over at the Muse Coffee. Hit him up, he'll hook you up. If he knows you're a fan of the show, you put in the code LLT, you get an extra 20% off your order. I mean, what do you got to lose, y'all? Help us keep the lights on, help a fellow entrepreneur and get you some good coffee in the process. Themuse coffee.co. Yo, and and the name Free Wild, it to me, it it makes me think of like young people going off, exploring, being free, being wild, and stuff like that. Now, does that is that your target market, or are you trying are you you get old people too, you know, or in between? What well, I mean that just the title itself it makes me think of you know younger uh demographics.

SPEAKER_03 10:07

Yeah, well, I mean, we're not necessarily targeting the the the very young, uh younger crowd, we're

The wild box: guests disconnect from devices, reconnect in nature

SPEAKER_03 10:13

kind of targeting ourselves, if that makes sense, right? Um, so let's say like you know, 30s to you know, 30s to 60s, um, professionals, people who wanna who want to have like a unique experience in in nature, right, in in the mountains or on the beach, but they also want to make sure that they get like the the high standards, right? And you know, to to explain a little bit more about the word Freewild, so what one of the things that makes us unique um is that we we try to inspire uh our guests to disconnect from their devices and spend our time in an old school way, right? In a traditional way, like playing board games, listening to music, um, you know, sitting outside uh around the campfire, right? Sitting in the hot tub and telling stories and having conversations with each other instead of you know sit being on your iPad, your phone, or being in your laptop. So we have two modes. One mode is free where if you have where you can do whatever you want. So if you have to work for a couple hours on your laptop, you know, you want to do something with your phone, make some phone calls, whatever you want to do, you're you're free to do whatever you want. But then we inspire people to step into what we call wild mode, right? So we have a we have a wild box at our properties where everybody can put their phones in there, and then we have a wild menu of like suggestions of what you could do, right? It's like, hey, you can go on a hike, or you know, you could we could have conversation cards, right? So people can actually have real conversations with each other, yes. You know what I'm saying? So we're trying to inspire that um to our guest of you know, stepping in stepping in a wild mode and you know have spending real quality time with each other versus being distracted by you know all the the social media and like the all the devices.

SPEAKER_01 12:02

Nice, nice. And and and and so how what's the what's the feedback been with with doing so trying to do something different? Are people like, hey, you know, that's that sounds all right. Are some stuff some people are all about it, you know, putting their phones in there and stuff, and some people like, yeah, I ain't gonna do that.

SPEAKER_03 12:18

Yeah, exactly. You know, that I think that's it's definitely like a you know, some people they're like you know, they're they're not so into it, so they they still enjoy like the experience that we're bringing, um, but they might not be as excited about that side of what we're offering. But some people like immediately when you know they get the first message, uh, the booking confirmation message where we explain that that we encourage people to go in wild mode, and you know, some of our guests like immediately respond back and say, like, wow, that sounds awesome. Like, you know, I'm definitely going into wild mode. This this is this is this is amazing, right? So I think you know, when you're when you when you build when you're bringing a very unique experience, it's like you know, some people are gonna love it, and those people are gonna be coming back all the time, right? Those those are the people that are gonna be like, you know, in a few years, hopefully we'll have like five, ten, fifteen, twenty free wilds uh across the country. And then those people that really connect with the culture that we're trying to build, those people are gonna be the ones that are that are just gonna stay at Freewild's, right? They'll be like, okay, let's go to a different few wild. Let's go check. Oh, there's an Freewild over there that's in that town, too, right? Let's let's go to Freewild because we we love that brand, we love the culture, we love, we love the experience.

SPEAKER_01 13:28

No, no, is a Freewild is it like uh like a boutique hotel thing? Is it like a hostel experience? I'm asking, let me let me paint a picture because when when I used to in my younger days, I used to travel through Europe and stay at hostels, and you know, nothing fancy, but they'd always have like a gathering area or a bar, you know, and they have music playing. You meet people from all over the world. That's what I loved about the hostels, you know. I was talking to people from I was in uh in Frankfurt, that was my favorite one, you know, of all places, Frankfurt, but they had a cool hostel there, and and it's right close to the train, the main train station. And I of course you met people from all over the world there. I didn't even know. I like, for example, I met some Eastern Germans, right? And I never even knew the story. Uh I mean, that there's still this this divide between Eastern Germans and Western Germans. I I learned this just by talking to them, and then they told me the story, why it's still kind of like that, you know. And um, but I met some really cool, I mean they were nice, super nice, and I met some really cool people and shared some stories, grabbed the guitar off the wall, started playing some guitar and singing with some people. It was just it was just so fun. Whereas here, let's just say United States, it's none I don't know if hostels is really a thing. Um, I've never seen them, but but people go to their own hotel rooms, stay in their whole hotel rooms, they do the excursions or whatever they want to do with their own, you know, they get their own their own people, and then they that's their vacation, you know. But in Europe, it's more of a communal thing. Is that is that what you're trying to build? And is this like uh is this like a boutique hotel kind of setup?

SPEAKER_03 15:01

Um well it's it's not it's not like uh a hostel, right? Like we have cabins with kitchens and you know, so it's it is it is a more of a short-term rental experience. Um, but we do we do see like over time, we do see us building a culture, and you know, our our guests, like we call them wilders, and we do see that this could become you know uh a community, right? Where wilders want to meet other wilders, right? Because if if you love the concept of disconnecting from your devices and you know reconnecting with with nature and like having just just spending quality time together, right? Without those devices, like if if that's something that really uh speaks to you, then you're probably gonna enjoy meeting other people that are also drawn to that concept, right? So so we do definitely see us building in community over time, but our you know, our cabins and our units are all private, right? So it's not like a hostel where you're sharing bathrooms and and things like that. Um, and it the folk the host, you know, hostel is very focused on like that everybody meets each other, right? There's it's very social, there's social areas and everything. And we do have at our first property in Ottawa, we do have like a shared park uh that people can walk around, they can do picnics and stuff like that. So there's an opportunity to to meet you know the other wilders. Um, but yeah, it's it's still it's still a private short-term rental experience.

SPEAKER_01 16:31

Okay, cool. Yeah, that's just what I was wondering. Because I

Driving direct bookings through Instagram ads and email

SPEAKER_01 16:34

do love that too. And I love my privacy here too, you know, especially now I got the family and stuff. But I loved just meeting people from all over the world and cool places. That was pretty neat. Are y'all are y'all doing like um I know you're painting a picture for me here, but are y'all are y'all doing like commercials and stuff for this? Because uh, I don't know, and and how are those, how are those going?

SPEAKER_03 16:55

Yeah, I mean we uh we actually just did a little bit of of advertising. So we're you know, Instagram is a big channel for us, uh, that we're building out. Um so we we ran we ran some ads for like a giveaway where we actually got really good results. Uh we got a lot of new uh Instagram followers, uh we got a lot of new people signing up for our email list. Um because you know, driving driving that the direct bookings and building up like that loyal uh base of of repeat guests is definitely uh a big focus for us. Um and I think you know, with when you have a an unique brand, I think it's easier to build that because people have a reason to follow you, they have a reason to come back and they you know they want to they want to learn more. There's a lot of content that we can generate uh that we can create around this topic. Um so you know, even though we we launched in October, we're yeah, we're definitely you know, we're definitely hitting the direct booking channels um and the marketing behind it uh from the get-go.

SPEAKER_01 17:54

Okay. And you're still uh marketing on the big channels too, the Airbnb and VRBO.

SPEAKER_03 18:00

Yeah. Yeah, yeah, for sure. Yeah, yeah. I mean, I think you know, we'll we'll probably always be on the OTAs because you because you know why not? I mean, you know, it's uh it's a it's an affordable way to source, you know, to find new customers essentially. So I don't know if we would ever completely be gone from those OTAs, but um, but uh definitely our goal is to you know to build up uh uh the direct booking channel.

SPEAKER_01 18:25

Well if you think about it, like you go to an OTA and it says this this um whatever this condo is managed by Vecasa, right? So they're still on the and they're huge. Yeah, so they're still on the OTAs. Now, do you put something like that? Do you put your logo on there, the Free Wild logo, and then you put you know, this is managed by uh Freewild or do you put stuff like that?

SPEAKER_03 18:48

Yeah, yeah, exactly. Yeah, yeah. So we're definitely brand driven uh on the OTAs. Um so but yeah, you're right. I mean, the the the big companies they you know they're still using those channels. So there are some companies that don't use um any OTAs,

Staying on Airbnb and Vrbo like Vacasa - brand-driven on OTAs

SPEAKER_03 19:03

right? And they make that part of their marketing. It's like you can own you only book directly. I think getaway. I don't know if you've heard about getaway, but uh I think they only do direct bookings, so you can't book a getaway anywhere else except for at getaway.com.

SPEAKER_01 19:17

You know, you know what that reminds me of is um and it's still it's still I believe it's still the case now. So Southwest Airlines, you know, they they are not on any of the um kayaks or pricelines or stuff like that, you know. Americans on there, Delta, all the other ones, but Southwest is like, no, no, no, you gotta come straight to us and book on our site. We're not gonna put our stuff on other people's websites. I was like a conscious to you know, there's a lot of people who's like, Why is it's money? You're gonna go be more exposure, but but it trained their target demographic to find them online, drove all the traffic straight to them, and that's the only way they can book.

SPEAKER_03 19:57

Yeah, yeah. No, I mean there are examples of that. There are not there's not many of them though, right? But there are some examples. Southwest Airlines is an interesting one. I I want to say I've seen them somewhere else on some sort of site, but I don't know. They're definitely affordable.

SPEAKER_01 20:14

I know for a long time it was just they they refuse to go on anybody else's sites. I guess they like the control. I don't know. I don't know what it is, but but um and protecting their brand, and you know, why they don't want to end up on a crappy site that people hate using, you know. It's not but that's not us. That's that's that's their that's their site. Um, so so cabins, you know, what you know when we started doing this and we started doing it uh short-term mentals out of our houses, and then of course getting arbitrages out of apartments and stuff. It was always cool to see what people were doing, like like you know, in cabins or or like it, like it's like you said, in the cabins in the mountains, or or like a beach bungalows or something. It's like wow, that's cool, you know. I'd love to do something fun like that. And and so so how was that? I mean, I know I think I remember your story that y'all bought like a group of cabins that were already built, and and so you had to go in there and renovate them to your specs, or how did that work?

SPEAKER_03 21:07

Yep, that's right. Yeah, so we we found a property in a while back, right? This is in uh September 2021 when we bought it, actually. So it had four existing cabins and a bunch of land around it. Um, so we initially like we ran the property uh as it was for a while. Um, then we renovated uh the properties and really launched like the Freewild brand. Uh and now we're going into the next phase on that property to see what we can uh what we can build out there, like there, because we you know we have space to build additional cabins. Um so right now we're you know we're exploring that. We're uh you know, talking to the county and stuff and seeing what's possible uh to expand uh the operations down there.

SPEAKER_01 21:51

I think if I do if I do recall uh correctly, uh you kind of like when you very first started that, you told me you kind. Of inherited a staff and it didn't end up working out too well. Can you go over that again?

SPEAKER_03 22:06

Yeah, so I mean, our the town where we are in Idawald is very, very small.

Inherited staff didn't work out - partnered with local management company

SPEAKER_03 22:11

It's just a couple thousand people, right? And where's this at again? Idawild, California. Idawal, California. Okay. Idawild. So it's not far from Palm Springs. Okay. Um, but yeah, no, I mean we, you know, we had a few people that worked for you know the previous owner, and uh, we worked with them for a while. But you know, I guess uh you know, we're we're our vision for how we want to operate is was very different than the previous owner, right? Um we want to have we want to have like a world-class experience for for our guests, right? So we're we're setting the standards like much higher than you know what uh uh what was what they were used to. And so we had to find a different solution uh for that. So we uh we actually partnered with a uh a local um a management company, right? So they manage like 60, 60, 70 or so uh cabins out there, and we made a deal with them that they would, you know, they would handle all the the cleanings and the maintenance and and and all basically all the in the ground on the ground stuff.

SPEAKER_01 23:14

Okay, cool. And and it kind of reminds me, and and you and you go look at their previous episodes with Jasper, but but he mentioned you know how it wasn't working out with the people that were already working for the the previous company, and you and y'all kind of kept them on and and tried to teach them what y'all are trying to do, which is way different with the previous ownership were doing out there, you know, it wasn't as world class, let's just say that. But it reminds me like when a when a when a team hires a new head coach and they still have all these assistant coaches in place, but what do you what usually ends up happening, he he fires all the the old regime, right? And brings in his guys because he wants to change the culture. And it's like is in any business, in any sport, it it's usually what happens. You you probably don't want to keep the the same uh people, decision-making people in place, it's gonna cause friction. You know, we don't do it like that, we've never done it like that. Why do we have to do you know, it's just simpler to start to start fresh, yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_03 24:12

And you know, I think it's important for everybody on the team to be aligned, um, you know, how we want to work together, like what the standards are, and you know, if if there's no alignment there, then you know, every I think everyone's better off like without each other, then you know, you got to be aligned.

SPEAKER_01 24:29

Nice, nice. So so you you got your brands, you got your cabins, and and you're doing the vacation rental markets, and and what it also, of course, without being said, with doing business in vacation rental markets, it kind of shields you

Regulations in Idlewild and why they're not afraid of them

SPEAKER_01 24:43

from the the regulations that are coming everywhere.

SPEAKER_03 24:46

Well, not not really. I mean, there's there's pretty strict regulations in Idawald, actually, you know. Um, which we don't mind it. We don't mind it because you know, we think that we believe that there should be regulations, you know. Um, and so we don't have uh yeah, we're not against regulations. Idowd is they're putting in pretty strict new regulations in there. Um so and we're totally cool with that. Um so yeah, no, I think the regulations that's you know that's that's something that we have to focus on in every market that we go to, because even if there are no regulations yet, they're gonna they're gonna be there at some point, right? So I think that's a focus for pretty much everywhere.

SPEAKER_01 25:27

Uh that makes sense, but um, I would say it would it might help a little bit keeping you from like an all-out ban, you know, like a big city or suburbs or something like that, because it is a vacation rental market, they rely on that money. Yes, regulations and it could be a good thing because a barrier to entry, it'll keep out all the the scragglers that are coming gonna come in there and make trouble and um yeah, keep out uh competition. Let's just say that.

SPEAKER_03 25:53

Yeah, yeah, 100%. Yeah, it's not like New York or you know, like uh Santa Monica and in Los Angeles where they're completely banning it, right? Um, that's that's true, but it is restricted, you know.

SPEAKER_01 26:06

Nice, nice. So you got these up and running, and so where's your next uh where's your next uh market that you you're planning on opening some more?

SPEAKER_03 26:14

I mean, that's a good question, you know. Like we're constantly looking at uh properties that come on the market. Uh, you know, we want to be in traditional vocation rental, like in nature. So we're currently looking at uh Big Bear, we're looking at Joshua Tree, we're looking at Sedona, we're looking at Lake Tahoe, like those, those are kind of the markets that we we would like to expand to this year. Um, eventually we want to be all over the US. Uh, but since we're in California, it makes more sense to you know to expand uh in in the area first. Um and you know, there's some really cool, there's some really cool markets around us, you know. So I'm actually going up to Joshua Tree and Big Bear myself uh in about two weeks um to you know spend some time with some friends, but at the same time also, you know, keeping my house open and understanding those markets because I mean we're looking for a very specific uh uh property, right? We're not we're not looking for just you know any cabin or any any type of uh of home. We're looking for we're looking for very specific vacation rental properties that have multiple units, you know, could be anywhere from like a handful or 10 to all the way up to like you know 50. Um and we're looking for the these these type of properties that fit our brand, right? And that are in the markets that we're looking for. And there's not that many for sale, right? So that's why our models, it's not so easy to scale it. Uh, and you know, it's gonna take some time for us to to scale it, but we rather we rather build a brand that we're passionate about, that we believe in, and that's really unique, uh, and you know, take more time to build it versus just kind of doing what everybody else is doing and you know, just rushing to scale as as quickly as possible.

SPEAKER_01 28:04

Now, now you said um okay, I'll stick to that there right now about I'm gonna go back to Joshua Tree and you probably know why. But but right now, um going back to okay, you're looking at these these places where you can do with you know the the cabin experience or or or something you know similar and and the place you're at now, you know, Idle Wild or or Free Wild, your company, um you actually have more land to to put more cabins, you said. Now in the me uh in the meantime, can you do things other than you know a full full out cabin? Can you put some A-frames up? Can you put some like tents? People can rent a tent. Can you do things like that that won't cost a ton of money to to make and and then start uh you know upping your revenue?

SPEAKER_03 28:52

Yeah, 100%. I mean, you know, there's a lot, there's a lot

Building custom A-frame structures with their architect

SPEAKER_03 28:56

possible, and like you you mentioned A-frames. That's actually we're working with our architect right now to design uh you know the the we want to design our own free wild structures essentially, right? And they're like unique structures. They you know it's not it's not just like regular cabins, you know. We've got a lot of really cool designs that we're working on with our with our architect that could be you know a frames or kind of a combination of the aim frame and a little bit of a different angle here and there, and like you know, so we're really we're really trying to create something really unique. Um, that you know, because I think that's what people want, you know, that's what people are going to want more and more in the future. Um, I think you know, unique experiences and people want to stay somewhere cool, you know, especially the younger generations, you know, they don't want to stay just at some random place, right? They want something cool, and uh and that's that's I think that's the future.

SPEAKER_01 29:49

Yeah, and and now on the topic A-frames or something, you know, something similar. Uh would you have to build out um I would assume you have to build out restrooms and showers too?

SPEAKER_03 30:02

Yeah, yeah, the whole thing. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Like, you know, grading, uh, the the roads, you know, the foundations, like there's a luck, there's a lot that goes into it, you know, amenities for thinking about, you know, maybe a pool or like a little cafe, like the whole thing, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 30:20

Nice.

SPEAKER_03 30:21

But it all depends on like you know, you gotta work with the with the county, right, to see what's what's possible. Okay, okay.

SPEAKER_01 30:27

Um so let's go back to Joshua Tree real quick because you you you you mentioned Joshua Tree, you're gonna be out there now. As a lot of us operators know that it got really saturated out there, right? Because uh, you know, because people will come on, especially you know, come on our shows and talk about Joshua Tree a long time ago, and then we're you know, word spread really quickly. Wow, Joshua Tree, you can get something for cheap out there and make a ton of money, you know, hand over fist. And and then, yeah, of course, the music stopped a bit because everybody went out there and then it was a race to the bottom and pricing and a race to the top and amenities, right? Because you you can no longer make a buck if you didn't have a hot tub, if you didn't have a cowboy pool, if you didn't have you know something really uh amazing out there, you weren't gonna make no money because in a regular, nice a night because I'll say this because we we do manage one still. It's it's a nice looking house, got beautiful views of the mountains and everything. It just doesn't have the super the super high amenities that that you need to to make money in Joshua Tree.

SPEAKER_03 31:28

Oh, 100%, you know, and especially now in February, it's it's winter time, right? So uh yeah, it's it's great, it's great for us because I I rented like a really really awesome like four-bedroom, and uh, you know, yeah, it was very affordable.

SPEAKER_01 31:43

Right, right. Yeah, so so that's that's the danger, I guess. But if I mean and and the point is you knowing your brand and what you can do, what you can provide to people, you know, is not it's it separates you from the pack, right?

SPEAKER_03 31:58

Exactly. Yeah. Yeah, I think that's why it's so important to to bring something unique, right? Because otherwise, yeah, if there's if there's a lot of new inventory, then and you have to if you have to compete on price in those markets, then you know, then you're not gonna do very well.

SPEAKER_01 32:16

It's tough, man. Because I I'll say this, because people would get sent our way that had bought a guru's package, right? And they got them started, they found them in their arbitrage, which they paid way too much for, and they they furnished it for way too much in a market. They said, Oh, well, the air DNA says gonna do this much money, right? And then they got started and losing their ass, right? And they call us and and say, Hey, you know, they said you can manage this for us, and we look at it and we're like, Man, you know, it's gonna be tough. We're gonna help you out, we're gonna try to do try to make you something as far as you're not making anything right now, and we'll we'll make we might bring them up to a point where they're breaking even or make a little bit, but I mean, it's I mean, it's we don't have much to work with with clients like that that that were part of that huge Airbnb buzz that happened a few

Guru gold rush victims: overpaid arbitrages based on 2021 numbers

SPEAKER_01 33:05

years ago, right? And everybody wanted to get into it, and it's just like I said, Joe, and then the the people writing out their houses or you know, the arbitrage, whatever, they they knew that these Airbnbers are gonna pay double the rent that a regular person is gonna pay, so they're written out to them. So it was like the perfect storm of people getting screwed on the prices, not knowing what they're doing, paying way too much on furniture and pricing and all that stuff, and then uh oversaturation happened.

SPEAKER_03 33:31

Yeah, 100%. Yeah, if you uh if you bought something, especially in those those markets where the supply has gone up so much, and you bought something based on you know 2021, 2022 numbers, then you know you're in trouble, and especially with the master leasing, that's why the master leasing is is it's a risky model, you know. I mean, I think there was I think another company just went uh another master leasing company just went belly up, wasn't it? Front desk a couple weeks ago. Yeah, yeah, right. I actually I had I remember having the founder on the podcast uh eight years ago or something when when he got started. Um but yeah, the man the masterly the arbitrage that's that's a risky that's a risky game to play, you know. Like we work with investors, right? So like uh obviously, yeah, if the market goes down, like our investors aren't making the return on investment that they were hoping for, maybe, but we're not out of business, you know. And you know, when I think when you have something like like a unique brand like like we have, then I think as there's a lot of people that see the the long-term uh potential and the long-term uh opportunity of investing into that brand. So they're not necessarily our investors are not necessarily worried about like oh we're making like a percent or two percent less this year, right? They they believe in they believe in the vision of our company, and you know, they're they're in there for the long term. So that's you know, that's a a bit different, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 34:56

Yeah, it's as a different model. Uh well let's speak on it. I mean, let's speak on this uh controversial subjects while we're at it. The uh we're talking about oversaturation of markets, you know, gurus might have taken advantage of people, the oversaturation of the gurus, man. And and I know that I'm not I'm not calling you a guru,

The guru oversaturation problem and Clubhouse infomercial wars

SPEAKER_01 35:14

but you you taught, you know, and I was in your mastermind, it's great, and you taught us some great stuff. And um, but I don't think you're the type that's putting people in into these tough situations. Whereas anybody that just read probably your book and said, Oh, I could be a guru now and teach other people how to do this and make a buttload of money. So speak to that what you've noticed in the oversaturation of the guru market.

SPEAKER_03 35:38

Yeah, honestly, I I don't really focus too much on it, to tell you the truth. Um, I'm not really a social media person, so uh, you know, I see some ads come I see some ads sometimes where you know the the the market they're very focused on a lot of them are very focused on the marketing, right? The marketing is really good. Like you get like a you know an Instagram uh ad where someone's like has a fancy car and is like, you know, I started, you know, I didn't have any money five years ago, and then I you know did this and that, and now I'm like a millionaire and like you could do it too. Um which, you know, I mean, sure. I'm not gonna I'll never tell somebody that they can't do it, but the reality is it's you know, it's it's very, very difficult. Like the short-term rental business is a very difficult business to run. It's 24 hours, there's a lot of you know, there's a lot of different aspects to the business, right? You have to wear a lot of different hats. And uh yeah, the reality is that uh it's it's a lot of hard work and and you have to be you have to have a passion for it, you know, and it's hard work and it's not easy. And you know, if you're passionate about it, it could be can be an amazing business because you're you're really having a positive impact on people's lives, right? I mean, if somebody somebody has like one week or two weeks off um per year, right, to spend with their family and they stay with you and they have an amazing experience, like that's an impactful experience that you're that you're facilitating for for somebody, right? So it's I think it's an amazing business, but yeah, it's uh it's not easy. Uh it's especially now, you know, if you started like five or ten years ago, then you know it was a bit easier, of course. But yeah, I think I think you just have to be realistic to to people, right? The goal shouldn't be in my mind, the goal shouldn't be just to sell as many uh dollars and courses and everything as possible. The goal is like, you know, understand like where you can bring value, um, find out if the person that you know wants to buy your stuff, if that's the right person um for what you're selling, and you know, you have to have a level of uh integrity there, I think. And if you if you don't, then like you know, like you're you're not gonna last very long because the short-term rental industry is very small, right? So like everybody, you know, people know each other very quickly, and they and the reputation, your reputation can get destroyed like very quickly too. If you know, if if if you're uh if you're not like driving value to people, I think.

SPEAKER_01 38:12

Dude, it it's funny you should say that because I I do remember a lot of uh the short-term rental uh, I guess gurus ended up going to uh clubhouse. And you remember Clubhouse back. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. I haven't used that in forever, but um, but clubhouse was oh, you gotta get on clubhouse, you gotta get on clubhouse, you know. Everybody's on there, and it was a lot of people from our industry uh on Clubhouse and just going back and forth, you know, trying to help people. It started off nice enough. People trying to help people out, giving them advice, all this stuff. Then these little shows started happening, and then of course the gurus flooded the place, and it was just seemed like infomercials every time that someone spoke, right? You know, buy my course, go to my thing, do this, do that. And and then then the evolution. I got off of it because a lot, you know, a buddy of mine told me, Hey, you got to check this out, started sending me clips, and it just got to the point where the gurus were fighting with gurus. It was so crazy. It was like, get your popcorn and watch because they were calling people out. Oh, you ripped so-and-so off. You know, they told me this, and that you took you stole their money, and this and I mean it, it got really bad on there, man. They were calling, I mean, I'll tell you off the air, but some big big wigs in the industry were just getting called out on there. They even came on there and tried to defend themselves. So, so yeah, I know what you mean about the integrity and the size. You know, it seems like it's a huge, and it is a huge market because of Airbnb, but it's a small club of people that are still that are like the ones that have been doing this for a while. And once word gets out that you don't have that integrity, it's it's it's game over for you.

SPEAKER_03 39:39

Yeah, yeah. Well, I'm glad I was I wasn't a part of that clubhouse stuff.

SPEAKER_01 39:44

It was it was entertaining to listen to, man. I'll tell you that much. But um, yeah, I haven't been on there for for a long time. Um, I was gonna I was gonna say, oh yeah, enough enough enough about that. Let's let's jump into something that you you had mentioned earlier about um revenue management, you know. That's that sounds like a big fancy business term. What can you break down? Just tell us uh what the hell is revenue management, man?

SPEAKER_03 40:10

Yeah, yeah, it's interesting, you know, because um I started focusing on this, uh I want to say probably probably about a year ago. So um where I was just noticing that a lot of a lot of our students and a lot of people in our community were see starting to see the slowdown, right? And um, and so you know, I I started looking more at like, okay, well, I mean, I've always been uh, you know, I'm a m math person, right? So like I love numbers, I love graphs, I love all that stuff. So I've always been really interested in the the pricing aspect, right? How do we actually maximize uh our revenue, right? How how should we set prices? You know, everyone uses dynamic pricing tools these days, but you know, you still there's a lot, there's a lot of parameters you have to put in there, right? You could have uh you could if you don't set up your tool correctly and you don't look at the actual market data, like you could be priced completely wrong, right? But to answer your question, like what yeah, what is revenue management? I mean, there's there's it's funny because like we we did some we did some webinars and some trainings, and you know, we'd have a hundred people on there, and uh, you know, we would ask people like, hey, drop in the comment, like, what do you think revenue management is? And and we get like a hundred different answers, right? It's like one, you know, you some people think it's uh it's it's your price, it's your uh it's your pricing tool, or it's like uh, you know, uh getting the highest ADR, it's like getting the highest occupancy, or you know, there's so many different definitions of it, but in my mind, it's it's just you know, how do you maximize how many how do you maximize the revenue on your units? And it's not just pricing, right? It also overlaps with distribution, uh, because you can set different prices in different channels, uh, it overlaps with operations because you know, you might want to upsell stuff or early check-ins or you know, one night stays, you might not be able to do one night stays operationally. So there's there's operational aspects to it, and and obviously marketing. There's marketing aspects, right? Because you know, most people probably think that revenue management is pricing mostly, but you know, if your listings aren't great, you know, if you have bad photos or there's something lacking in your marketing, then you know you can do you can have the smartest pricing strategy, but you're not you're not gonna make much because no one's gonna book, right? So yeah, it's a it's a big it's a big um there's a lot involved with with revenue management, you know. That that's what I've learned over the last year or so. Been going to conferences and connecting with all the revenue management experts in the space, and you know, there's a lot to it, and that makes it a very interesting topic. And I think um I think right now it's very relevant because you know, as we all know, 2021, 2022, you know, you could you just do kind of whatever and uh you're making money, but right now uh that's not necessarily the case anymore, right? So now we we gotta uh take the all these different aspects of the business uh very serious and we we gotta educate ourselves um and really understand like okay, how do we actually drive uh a higher revenue? Because now like increasing your revenue by 20-30 percent could mean staying in business or going out of business, right? Versus a couple of years ago, it was like, yeah, you're making not as much money as you could, but you're still making good money, right? And that that's changed now.

SPEAKER_01 43:29

Yo, yo, yo, Steve Stacks again. One more quick shout out to themusecoffee.co. That's the musecoffee.co. Get you a freshly roasted bag of coffee today. Go to the musecoffee.co, use code LLT, and get you 20% off

20-30% revenue increase now means staying in business

SPEAKER_01 43:47

of a bag of the best coffee you'll ever have in your life. The musecoffee.co that goes back to what we're talking about before.

SPEAKER_03 43:56

It's like, you know, running a shorter rental business, like you gotta wear a lot.

SPEAKER_01 44:00

hats you know there's like the revenue management there's the marketing there's the customer service there's the the bookkeeping the accounting like there's there's so many different aspects to it that you know it's yeah yeah we should we definitely should not be uh misleading people that are new and making them think that it's easy and they can just you know come in and make a bunch of money because that's just not how it is yeah yeah I that's what I liked about you know when we were on the mastermind on your mastermind you would talk a lot about the business aspect of it you know because it is a business and it's not just like it's not just furniture in between four walls it's more than that and and and if you're I I I like you know because people have existing places and if you could bring up the if you can make it improve it and that's the thing because people are like I don't want to spend more money on furniture even though it should you know they probably should upgrade the furniture I've been doing that a little bit um or create a fourth bedroom in a house for example that's what I'm I'm up to next even though it is like a kind of an arbitrage house but I could see the potential of a fourth bedroom separating me from the pack of three bedrooms um and and just uh and then you have to pay for the professional photos again but it this is all an investment man and and and I've heard and you mentioned marketing and and I you know back in my college days they mentioned how important marketing was that Coca-Cola spent 50% of their budget on marketing 50% how much how much do does the average short term rental operator spend on marketing they try to do all the free stuff right but they don't they probably don't spend one dollar on on a Facebook ad or I'm not saying you have to do that or or you know they want to invest in in in the in the in the best photos and the best you know furniture is part of your marketing you got nice stuff you got pictures you got to put it out there but but whereas the big corporations they know that how vital is if you're not being seen then no one's gonna buy your product right yeah 100% well I mean you know the reality is that you know since since Airbnb became popular it offered a way for people to make money and build a successful business without having to do marketing because you're basically just paying Airbnb 15% you know for customers and that was that was a viable option for for a long time and it still can be in certain in certain you know in in certain ways but it's just not you know it's not as easy anymore. No no and you need you need your uh a great website

Professional websites, instant booking, and real phone numbers

SPEAKER_01 46:33

I would I would say if I'm gonna just give my own advice you need a great website because you're how you're gonna have your brand on there on your Airbnb page right and and so people most you know computer savvy people will look at your brand oh I could find that out there on the Google land and and they'll go to your website and if it's a crappy little landing page then it's you're you lost them they're not oh I don't trust these guys you know but if it's if it's a nice wet looking website professional bookable looks like a price line maybe not as good but but looks nice and decent has a phone number has an email clearly where they can call you and talk to you and then they'll they'll trust you right um so that's I mean that's that's basic which I still talk to so many people and they don't have a a professional website so so I'm just saying I mean and they're getting by but just just yeah just these little touches will go go a super long way with your potential clients.

SPEAKER_03 47:29

Mm-hmm yeah no absolutely absolutely I mean there's you know if you look at if you look at Airbnb and you look at booking.com and those look at the design and like every single detail has been tested out right the color of the button right like you go on booking.com and like you you search for a property and the and and you click on a you click on a hotel you know and and it always it always says like you know one room left or two room left right and and you know that's not true. No right but it's like you know they they've spent so much time figuring out like okay how do we get people to actually book versus just you know just looking at the site and you know we we we have to have that same mindset like when we're when we develop our book like direct booking website right we also have to have that mindset of like okay well how is this how's this going to get people to how is it going to convert right into bookings right and to your point yeah if you don't if you're not building trust you're not building reputation you don't have a good call to action on on the website if you don't make it easy for people because people people want the process to be easy you know I think every every additional step that you add to the booking process will cost you like you know 20 30 percent of your of your of your guests because people are people want things fast right so that's why on Airbnb it's so easy to use right just click a couple clicks of the mouse and boom you're you're you're booked and people want that same experience so like I and and I you know it's funny because like yeah I see a lot of the diary booking websites from our students but also the the properties that we're looking at potentially interested in purchasing and and sometimes you're just like it's so complicated like just to book that it's like I would never make a booking on this website because it's just like I'm just turned off by it. There's too many I have to fill out too many too much information and you know I just want to like put in put in the dates and I just want to click on the book button and you know put in my credit card info and that's it. I don't want to deal with any other sort of steps and uh yeah to your point it's you know you got to be professional about it these days.

SPEAKER_01 49:42

Be professional um pay a little extra for that website to have it where it loads fast because if if they're gonna wait three or four seconds for it to load they're gone. They're onto something else. Our attention spans have become so microscopic nowadays and that's just technology you know it's done that it's funny because you try to watch an old movie and you're like God dang that this buildup is taking forever when are they going to get to the point you know whereas the new movies you need an explosion every five seconds just to keep you you know interested or something like that.

SPEAKER_03 50:11

But but that translates to the people want to go okay I'm gonna click on his site site looks good oh I can the dates are available here I can book it you know or I can call them as a real phone number on there because I mean I've been I don't know if you noticed the trend even giant big corporations I know because we deal with a lot of apps and stuff you know with our with our industry they don't give us a freaking phone number anymore they want us to do that ai chat thing to try to figure it oh my god that's so frustrating I can't talk to a human and not even the chat thing is a human anymore and it just gives you options to I mean but but to give someone a real phone number where you can talk to a real life human is huge and no and people and it seems like the industry is going away from that well you know one thing that comes to mind is um you know we had uh in our mastermind we had uh Brooke Fouts I'm sure you you know brook yeah yeah yeah he he wrote he wrote a couple books right uh vacation rental secrets and zero to five hundred and um you know and he he has a company called Ventury where he helps people acquire new customers and he in in our mastermind he was talking about how important it is to just pick up the phone he was like if you pick up the phone you're ahead of 50 of other property managers because he called like a hundred property managers and like only 40 or so picked up the phone right and uh and that that kind of blew my mind I was like wow you know that and to your point you know like people people want people want to deal with human beings right and and not necessarily with the with the AI bot or the whatever it is I'll tell you I'll tell you uh uh grandma grandma gene out there's got full pockets and she wants to talk to somebody she ain't about you know going on a little chat thing so if you if you answer and it's grandma eugene she'll tell you her whole life story but she she'll trust you and she's gonna book with you man absolutely absolutely I mean look there's a place for AI and everything but you know I think uh I think the human connection is something that is always gonna be important in hospitality you know there's the idea that you want to just kind of automate everything um I I don't think that's the right way to go um I think people are more than ever probably gonna gonna want uh a human connection and a human that they can talk to uh we see it with our guests we see it all the time you know when when there's a little issue we we don't you know we just call them right and we're we're just like hey you know like uh we're gonna help you out uh this is what we're gonna do and they appreciate that right and and as a result you know you'll still get that five star review even though the the water heater didn't work for like an hour or whatever whatever it is right that there's a storm and the internet went down for a couple hours like whatever whatever that is like if you're if you if you show people that you care and you bring that human connection to to the guest communication then you know people are going to uh the they're not gonna punish you for for you know small issues for the most part for the most part some people some people you can't please lucky yeah some people you can't please that's just part of it man it's part of hospitality right well it's yeah and I was actually looking at a property today um that uh we potentially were interested in in purchasing and um

Guests rave about the location, trash the automated host

SPEAKER_03 53:31

you know it the reviews the everyone was raving about the the location and the beauty of the nature and all of that but there was one thing that like in all the reviews it was like but the host was horrible like you know never responded like you know everything is automated and like I I don't even know who's behind this and you know you people feel like they're they've been they're being treated as a number like a robot or something and you know that's that's not no bueno no no bueno and you could pay like a a small amount to have someone answering that phone for you at all times you know but but people don't want to invest in that they want it they want the easy button so so I don't know if you I mean if you wanted to flip the script now and ask me some questions and and go the other way with this thing uh because we were just talking me and me and Jasper were talking about okay we're gonna each post this episode on each other's podcast right so so in the middle of it which we've only almost been going for an hour but we're gonna flip it the other way and he's gonna ask me excuse me put me on the hot hot seat a little bit about my business and then uh you know we're gonna go over stuff so if you want to do that that's fine.

SPEAKER_01 54:39

Yeah I mean we're already going for an hour I I'd say we should we schedule another time and because I because I don't want to rush it you know I don't want to just I want to take my time to ask you some some difficult questions you know that you're gonna think about I'll I'll BS them don't worry um no no that that's cool man uh um and going back to it all it it you do have to be passionate about this thing and and I the reason I got into it because I I used to stay at uh short term rentals Airbnb's and and I thought it was super cool people could rent out their own places and people started were very creative in the beginning and and and of course that turned into a cookie cutter IKEA thing for a little while but then it came the creativity is coming back to it right and so that that's what drew me in I was like wow yeah I go to this cool place is it like a mural on the wall they they got some wine they left me a bottle of wine this is a hotel would never do that crap they charge me like 50 bucks for this bottle of wine but it was just like the stuff like that was what drew me into this industry and so I had I did have a passion for it that's what that's why I wanted to start doing it not just because I saw there of course back then there was no gurus online selling courses to do this which is like oh crap uh okay I'm just gonna list my hat take some pictures with my phone and and throw my throw my house on there and see what happens you know and then and at first in in the early days people wanted to meet me you know oh you gonna be at the house you're gonna let us in I was like no there's a there's a code on there but if you want to meet we can and then we'd meet and they we'd go out and sometimes and have some some beers with these strangers from other places and have a meal and they they'd want to you know they'd they'd leave a lot of goodies behind at our house because we were cleaning it ourselves it was just that's how that's how it all started for us right until it turned into like more of a business but

Providing an experience versus providing a space

SPEAKER_01 56:25

then I think it could be both right you could be a a business plus have that um you know homey feel to it right this uh this experience with these people you want you want to have you want them to have a cool experience a unique experience you don't want them to just be like okay I stayed at this cookie cut or whatever place and then we left and they'll never even remember it or remember you.

SPEAKER_03 56:47

Yep. No 100% no I think you know it's when you talk to people that are hosting like it's very clear that there's two categories like there's the people that are in the mindset of like we're providing a space right and there's the people that are in the mindset of like hey we're providing an experience to our guests right and you know I think uh I think we have to be in that second category. Yeah yeah it's it's it's come full circle again right um and that's what I like that this industry's always uh got some ebbs and flows to it um is there's sometimes it's it's it's a gold rush and then the next time it's uh oversaturation then everybody leaves again it's another gold rush it there's been so many it's like a roller coaster ride and but but I like what you're I like what you're doing and I and I've always wanted to try something you know similar to of course I uh more of a beach I've been I've been looking for more doing beach stuff and and and I I think I told you the story we love to go to South Padre Island in Texas you know uh we live here in Texas we like we I've always gone down there every summer um but even even up till today even you know there's still some old timey you know beach houses that furniture from the 80s it that that they they won't invest in in new furniture they got wicker like furniture and and just there's no design to it there's nothing so I I see a lot of potential when you find a a places like that to to really really maximize the the revenue management as we go full circle on the revenue part of this show never sent dude I never sent yeah yeah so so um no no that just just all that I I love talking about this stuff with you because yeah me and you were OGs in this industry and and um you've helped you've helped me out tremendously and and I really appreciate that you've helped a lot of people out you you give so much free knowledge every week on your show you've been doing it since 2012 you said yeah well the podcast 2014 so about coming up on 10 years wow dude that's crazy you're gonna have a celebration for that of course of course yeah we're gonna do something special for sure yeah so so there's a big conference going on this week are you are you going to still go to conferences and stuff um I actually I went to two conferences uh in the last couple months I went to the VRMA in Orlando and then I also went to the DARM so the D A R M which is the revenue management conference so that was in Nashville in December um then literally like a week after the the conference I flew back to Europe and I spent uh I was supposed to spend about five weeks in Europe with family you know went skiing um did a bunch of stuff so uh I ended up staying a little longer uh because uh uh you know like uh some uh some challenges with uh with the family that I needed to to support on so I I decided to stay a couple weeks longer so I just got back last week so I was like man I I don't want to I don't want to travel for the next uh couple months I just want to stay here now it's uh it's uh I mean I I love the conferences but you know it's it's it's a lot you know it's intense like you're flying out there you're spending a couple days and then you come back you have to catch up on work and you know it's a lot is it a net positive going to conferences uh I mean it it depends you know it depends on it depends on what your goal is it depends on how you approach it I think I mean we could do a whole podcast on like getting value out of a conference I have been to so many conferences in my life um but yeah I mean I you know if you if you have a if you have a plan and you're very clear on like what you want to get out of it and who you want to talk to and what connections you want to build and what you want to learn if you have a plan then I think and you know these conferences can be very valuable. But if you're just randomly like booking a ticket and you don't really know what you're doing and then you you could all it could also very easily you know you get some free drinks at the parties and and and then you come back and you're like well I didn't really learn anything. You know so it all depends on how you approach it I think.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:05

Well what what's one like big thing that came from you going to one of those conferences?

SPEAKER_03 1:01:11

From the last couple ones that I went to or any of them.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:15

Any of them that sticks out that that just something big that really changed your trajectory by going to one of these things.

SPEAKER_03 1:01:22

Well I I'll tell you I'll tell you something interesting that I noticed at the VRMA right in in Orlando this year or last year that was in October um number one it was like that there was a record record amount of attendees right

VRMA handed out soap boxes because Airbnbs supply nothing

SPEAKER_03 1:01:36

so they never there was like 2700 people or something there right so that's a lot of people but actually what the you know one of the things that really stood out to me was you know they they were giving away these boxes to all the attendees and in these boxes were like a couple a couple things that you need in the in the house right so like wash you know dishwash detergent and you know hand soap and things like that. And it it you know when I checked in to to our we rented the Airbnb with a with some of the people in our mastermind and our courses and and you know the first thing I noticed it was an amazing house but then there was nothing there was no they didn't supply anything like no consumables like no you know no coffee no no no oil no hand soap no nothing right and then when I saw the at the VM Ray everyone they were they were handing out these these these free boxes to everybody I was like ah they must have they must have realized like how how you know how bad distract rentals are here because you you you don't get anything right so like I thought it was kind of ironic that you know probably the biggest uh conference in the ventrification rental space and you know they they're giving out these boxes because they realized that people were going to need those because they you know you're not gonna get it at the Airbnbs that you're staying at here.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:58

Wow old school man and that yeah I see that too at the old beach houses in in Padres still you get there there's nothing not even a coffee filter there might be a coffee maker no filter no coffee nothing to start you off with right no sugar no anything salt and pepper you have to go to the store and get cooking oil you have to go make a damn you know you can get to the beach after all that flying and driving and all that stuff and then you have to go to the damn grocery store just to get basic supplies right you might get one toilet paper roll napkins forget about it they're not going to give you paper towel those are too expensive.

SPEAKER_03 1:03:30

But yeah man is it's that old school um that's how it used to be done back in the day and way back in the day I heard that you had to bring your own sheets and pillows and stuff I I know there's I think there's still some some out there that where you have to bring your own sheets even it's crazy isn't it that is nuts man well we've come a long way jasper and and I'm happy you're hopping on my show and I'm happy I'm hopping on your show in a way because I guess you're gonna put this on yours too so it's always fun uh learning from from the master uh of short term rentals uh jasper rivers uh you know everybody knows where to find you right get paid for your pad getpaidforyourpad.com uh what else you want to drop free freewild.com yeah I mean if people are interested in our brand like go check out freewild.com and again it's uh it's frou e and then why of uh w y l d so wild is spell spelled a little bit different um we're on instagram like you know we have uh we have somebody in our team that may creates really cool content for our Instagram so we have we have some cool stuff up up on there if you want to check it out and uh yeah I mean if you want to learn about short term rental I mean we're mostly focused on focusing on helping people with revenue management these days so Cedar like we you know we have a course we also do uh one-on-one consulting with uh we call it like do it together right so like you still do your own revenue management but we hop on a call every week and we you know we give you we give you like advice on how you're setting your prices and all of that and then we also uh we also actually manage uh some some of our clients we manage their entire portfolio now so that's what we're focused on when it comes to the education um but yeah you know get paidforyourpad.com you know shoot us an email if you need support on anything and we're you know we're always happy to help and there's tons of free knowledge on that website to uh getpaidforyourpad.com oh yeah and and and and every every few months I get drawn back to that website on accident because I'll Google something and in particular I was looking for how to get Airbnb payouts before the guest actually stays there you know kind of like there was a company I remember there was a company that you would front you the money right and and it would work it would work perfect with the timeshare part of our business where we rent out timeshares but we got to pay for them first until the guest is realized the state has realized that we're loading up our credit cards until they pay it and then we get realized our our our profits right but I was like man there's got to there was that company out there that that would front you the money that air for your Airbnb says that'd be perfect for us and I googled it and it sent me to get paid for your pad article from 2017 or something and and a bold letter is on the top it says this company does uh no longer does uh revenue whatever uh you know front you the money this yeah a disclaimer but you left the article up and and and I'm sure it gets a ton of hits yeah that you know that I learned one time uh when I was learning about blogging that it's all been like you shouldn't delete content you know because because Google doesn't like that so if something's outdated you just put it at the top you just put you know whatever update you have to put there and then you just leave it there.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:39

And I've been accidentally going there ever since and a lot of people I'm sure have accidentally went there but once they're there then oh what is this get paid for the pad it is a pretty good article and so there's a lot of free articles on his on his on his um blog on the website. So go check it out get paid for your pad check out Jasper's show it's been going on since you know beginning of time and um thanks Jasper for hopping on and I look forward to seeing you at the next conference maybe we'll bump into each other yeah man for sure I'm in California now so like I'm not too far away and I love eating brisket so you know if any excuse to come down to Texas uh is is uh I'll take it. All right live let thrive live let thrive conference coming up for you guys.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:21

All right sounds good man thanks man take care live let thrive out thank you for tuning in to this week's episode of Live Let Thrive be sure to tune in next week for all the latest in the world of Airbnb and all that entails. Bye bye