Cold open

SPEAKER_00 0:00

Welcome to Live Let Thrive, a podcast about the Airbnb life, the share economy, and everything in between. Here are your hosts, Micah and Steve.

SPEAKER_01 0:11

Hello, hello, hello, and welcome back to another exciting episode of Live Let Thrive. Coming at you from Fort Worth, Texas. This is episode 295 of your favorite short-term, mid-term, long-term podcast in the world. And we have a special guest today for y'all. Everybody knows her. It's Miss Ziona McIntyre. Mrs. Ziona McIntyre. Um and who is Ziona McIntyre? You don't know, I mean, but you probably do. Xiona is an author, a realtor, investment consultant, and speaker. She has been an Airbnb host since 2012, and she now uses her decade of experience to help other clients, help her clients house hack and build portfolios of short-term and midterm rentals. She is an avid real estate investor owning a double-digit portfolio of furnished rentals across five states. She is the author of the Bigger Pockets 30-day stay book, a real estate investor's guide to mastering the medium-term rental. She has been featured on Bigger Pockets, a business insider, NPR, and more than 100 podcasts, including ours. Ziona has traveled to 48 countries. She spends half the year in Boulder, Colorado, and the other half of the year traveling the world as an international pet and house sitter. Welcome to the show. It's early for me too, Xiona. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:42

It's like a really good read on the spotter. I was like, I feel the passion.

SPEAKER_01 1:47

A read on the spotter. That's a new thing. I like that. Oh, wow. How you how you been? It's been a minute.

SPEAKER_03 1:54

It's good. I just realized that I completely matched my background. I don't know if you post this on uh YouTube, but I'm like, yeah, I'm really fitting in there.

SPEAKER_01 2:02

Yeah, yeah, you're camouflaged in there. So we we did like a book club of Xiona on her amazing book, 30-day stay. If you don't got it, go get it. It's it's really, a really amazing book. I mean, she dives in from everything from, of course, 30-day plus stays, the midterm rentals, to um how she

Midterm rental market saturation and vetting local demand

SPEAKER_01 2:23

got her start. You know, there's I mean, her origin story and um her and Sarah Weaver uh did a great job on this book. I I love it. I mean, I'm reading it a second time, it's so good. And uh and what one of the I mean, there's so many uh so many places to start, but but um 30 Day Stays. I mean, in the book, you know, it was the new, the hot, new thing and all that. And then you mentioned um when we did our little book club meeting that it was getting saturated as well, uh as you know, like Airbnb, it was the gold rush, and then all of a sudden oversaturation. So, what are your thoughts on that? You know, how how everybody just like, especially with all the regulations, oh, I'll just turn my Airbnb into a 30-day rental. What are your thoughts on that?

SPEAKER_03 3:06

Yeah, I think nowadays it's more important than ever to just know the market and if your market can hold and has the demand for more midterm rentals. There are definitely markets out there that do. And I think the best way to find that out, because there's just not a lot of like information online about this, about demand, even through Furnish Finder, it's not that clear, is to just speak with other investors in your area. So going to meetups is really important because you can talk to other midterm rental hosts that are saying, hey, no, I'm I'm doing great. I get lots of bookings, I have no vacancy, or other ones that are like, oh my gosh, my property's been sitting for three months. Vacancy will kill your rental and your return. So um, you definitely want to do your research before.

SPEAKER_01 3:51

And what are some great places to do some research for that?

SPEAKER_03 3:55

Well, just going on meetup.com is a great way to find other investors. I think even Bigger Pockets has events that you can look up. Um, but just going to even your local RIA, which is like a real estate investment club, um, all of those kinds of events are generally free, at least for your first few times. And you can get a lot of information and maybe even meet partners and get money loans. I mean, there's so many things you can get from those meetups.

SPEAKER_01 4:22

Okay, so you're big on the meetups, and that's cool. And and um, so you actually you go physically to a lot of meetups still?

SPEAKER_03 4:29

I don't anymore. I used to host one in Boulder, and that was great. Um, I probably could stand to go out and do some more meetups. I am just a little more on the introvert scale, and so sometimes networking and meetups is a little bit rough.

SPEAKER_01 4:44

So you you do a lot of zooms, I'm I'm assuming.

SPEAKER_03 4:47

I do a lot of small groups, I do a lot of one-on-ones, and sometimes these meetups end up being like 50 people, so then I'm just cowering in the corner.

SPEAKER_01 4:58

That's that's crazy. One thing I'll I've always wanted to ask you, because you said you grew up in Maui, right? And you also mentioned you didn't grow up with a lot of money, correct?

SPEAKER_02 5:07

No.

SPEAKER_01 5:08

So how I've always wondered that is Maui only a place where rich people can enjoy.

SPEAKER_03 5:15

No, I mean, I think a lot of what Maui has that's amazing is free, right? You have all the beaches and the hiking and waterfalls and stuff, so there's a lot to offer, but I think it can be a very hard life there as well, because there's not a lot of um options. Like when you live in a city, you can live further and further away from the city and it gets more affordable. But when you live on an island, all of it's expensive, so it can be a pretty tough place, but it's also a place that people learn to live frugal, and that was a skill that I developed early.

SPEAKER_01 5:50

Oh, so it's helped you in life, really.

SPEAKER_03 5:53

A hundred percent. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 5:54

I mean, I mean, because I've been a couple of times, it's beautiful. I mean, of course, if you haven't been, of course, go to Maui or try to get there. Um, but I I remember way back then, well, I guess it's been about man, about seven years ago or so. I've been to Maui. But um, like, and they told me, Oh, go to the grocery stores and see how much a gallon of milk is there. And it was like seven or eight bucks back then. And I'm like, Yeah, you know, what is it now? Like 12 bucks for a gallon of uh of milk. I mean, how do I was just wondering, how do people live?

SPEAKER_03 6:23

I don't know. My sister, she's like really into nutrition, and so she would go to a farm and get raw milk, and she was paying $20 for a half gallon.

SPEAKER_01 6:34

Oh my half gallon. Yeah, she's gotta sip that daily.

SPEAKER_03 6:39

Um just really ration that shit.

SPEAKER_01 6:44

Would you would you invest in Maui right now?

SPEAKER_03 6:47

You know, I've never found something that quite makes sense. My sister finally just bought a piece of land. My family never could own there. Um, and so I'm really excited for her because um I think what people don't know is that when you go to Maui as like a quote unquote white person, there's kind of this like gringo effect because there's so many different cultures there. And so you're actually a minority. And so growing up there, even though I lived there over 20 years, I always felt like an outsider. And I think it's pretty incredible now that she finally is able to afford a piece of land, they're gonna build their own home. And it it was really hard to get there. Um, and so it just feels like such an accomplishment for our family to have like actual roots there.

SPEAKER_01 7:32

That's awesome. Congrats on that for your sister. Um, yeah, they call them uh howlies, right?

SPEAKER_03 7:37

People that ain't from there are yes, I know I was actually speaking with my husband about this the other day and being like, it's weird to say this, but I like fully understand racism and like the effect. And it's just a weird thing to say as someone who like presents very white and like white and Hispanic, but I fully understand how that feels.

SPEAKER_01 8:00

Y'all just look like a little Native American to me, a little Pocahontas.

SPEAKER_03 8:03

I've got a little of that. I'm just a big old mutt.

SPEAKER_01 8:07

Speaking of mutts, you still pet sitting?

SPEAKER_03 8:10

Uh not today, but yes, we have um some pet sits coming up. That is our favorite travel hack in the world. So if you guys haven't checked it out, um you can always reach out to me and I'll tell you how to do it.

SPEAKER_01 8:22

What site, what site are you using? Do you use Rover?

SPEAKER_03 8:25

No, we don't, and I think Rover can still work. We use trusted house sitters, and I used to pet sit way back in the day just through um connections and referrals. But having an app is so wonderful because you can be very selective. And now I am older and pickier, so I'm only staying at the most luxurious banging houses. So I'm just like looking through all the petits, finding all the best ones. So yeah, it'd be a great way to travel.

SPEAKER_01 8:54

What are what are some of the coolest ones you've been you've stayed at?

SPEAKER_03 8:58

Um we do a lot in the mountains of Colorado. So my husband is a huge snowboarder, and instead of driving two hours there, a couple hours on the mountain, two hours back, and then maybe some traffic, we just go for like two weeks and co-work, and then we'll be just like 20 minutes from the hill. That's so great.

SPEAKER_01 9:16

Nice, nice kind of a local pet sit. Yeah, that's cool. Um yeah, like I said, so many, so many things to talk about on this show. And and one of the one of the cool things that

Creative finance for agents: subject-to and seller financing explained

SPEAKER_01 9:29

that you know, if you follow Xiona on the Instagram, she talks, she's talking, she got into the creative finance world real big. And uh you still into that real big, and and you're still an agent, correct? Yes, I'm bringing it up.

SPEAKER_03 9:41

Sometimes those don't max. Oh boy.

SPEAKER_01 9:46

Because because I remember like when I started like like following Pace Morby, you know, people know Pace, he's a sub subject two guy. Uh, and and I started telling agents that were showing me houses. I was like, well, can you ask them if they can do subject two? And they didn't know what the hell I was talking about, right? And I'm like, and I had to explain it. I I'll send them videos here. Watch this video, this guy named Pace Morby. And this is just it's real, you know, it's better than me explaining it because you think I'm doing something illegal, and you're like, oh, my our firm doesn't allow that, or whatever, whatever their excuses are. Um, but but could you go into real quick what subject two is and how you're use utilizing it with your uh as being an agent?

SPEAKER_03 10:26

Yeah, I think the unfortunate thing about agents is that instead of just saying, hey, I don't know, or I would like to learn more about that, they just say no. They say, like, we don't do that, they reject the idea, and then it's over with. And I think that is a mistake because then you miss out on all these opportunities that you could have just added another tool to your tool belt. So definitely if you're an agent listening, I highly recommend checking out some of Pace's videos. But um there are a lot of different ways to do creative financing, and some of the ways people have heard of are seller financing or rent to owns, but there's a bunch more. And subject two is one that's gotten popular recently. And the way that works is that the loan on the property just stays with the property. So instead of it being paid off at the time of sale, that property just kind of or that loan just transfers over. So it does stay in the seller's name, but you get to take it over and you take over the payments. And so what's great about that is you can get a really low interest rate, you can get a low down payment, um, you can close so much more quickly. So it can be a great way to acquire properties and it doesn't affect your debt-to-income ratio. You don't have to qualify for the loan, you don't have to have good credit. So a lot of times us investors have a really hard time even getting loans anymore because what people don't know is when you have a lot of mortgages, they don't like you anymore. So I I know that when I have to get a loan, it's been a while, but uh it's a lot of paperwork. It's a lot. So this is so much easier and cleaner for a lot of people.

SPEAKER_01 12:06

Nice, nice. And so um, do you purchase uh homes for yourself, subject too?

SPEAKER_03 12:12

I haven't yet. I've sold a few of my own that way, and then I've sold lots for uh buyers and sellers. I've helped them do those transactions, but I am not in a place anymore that I'm buying that much. I am kind of transitioning into more passive investments and doing a lot of syndications and funds.

SPEAKER_01 12:32

And why are you doing that?

SPEAKER_03 12:34

I think it's because of the horizon. So I've been an investor since 2014, and even before then, I was doing Airbnb as arbitrage. Um, and I just think I kind of burnt out. I was a big property manager for a while, and I was managing in five countries, and then I like really pared it down and just did my own portfolio, and now I even have somebody helping me manage them, but I am tired. Um, so I am just like really loving the hands-off nature

Transitioning from active ownership to passive syndications

SPEAKER_03 13:04

of if you choose the right fund and the right managers to manage those funds, uh, you just give them your money and you don't have to do anything. They give me money back.

unknown 13:13

That's right.

SPEAKER_01 13:15

I love that. I love that. I I have, I mean, yeah, a couple of incidents happen at some of my um short-term rentals and like uh some destruction happened. I mean, we'll get through it, but it's just um like man, I need to, I I really it just gets overwhelming. I mean, just uh especially the short-term side. Midterm's a little bit less, but things can happen in midterm rentals too. And that's that was one of the questions I was gonna ask you with you, you know, you growing, you doing books, you know, you you doing uh um like like I know you love to enjoy, you know, traveling and having your freedom. And I'm like, but I I a lot of people I interview on this show, they're they're own, I mean, nothing against it, but their thing is it's always their their answer is always oh more. You know, I want to get to 50, I want to get to 100, I want to get, but I'm like, to me, I'm like, but why? You know, why why do you want to why do you want more if if it's already like really hard to hand you and you dig in deep on them and you're like, yeah, man, it's it's stressful because this and that. I got stuff going on here and there, and hiring and firing, and like, but you're gonna get more of that. You want more of that, and like like well, sometimes the answer is is less.

SPEAKER_03 14:28

It yeah, I think so. And I think maybe that's something that's really helped me from coming at real estate investing from the financial independence side. So there's a whole movement called the fire movement, and it's financial independence retire early, and that's where I started first. I just said I want to retire early, I don't know how I'm gonna do that. And I started reading a bunch of blogs. Do you remember blogs before all the videos? Um, yeah, so we I used to read a bunch of blogs. I got into that, and then I found real estate investing right after, and then that was actually a way that I catapulted to get financially independent faster. Um, but I think always in my mind there was I this idea of enough. Like, when is it enough? When do I have enough money? When do I have enough returns? Um, and so I just want the lifestyle, right? We talked about that a little while ago. It's like I want to travel, I want to feel like I can be calm, I want to feel like I don't have to be somewhere this morning. You uh had to message me to remind me that we had this show. Because I was sitting in bed just like dinking around. Um, so yeah, it's like I love that freedom. I never wake up to an alarm, and that's a beauty. So what I noticed is that these rentals were taking away some of my freedom. And I started with short-term rentals, and then I thought, well, maybe midterm rentals will be easier. And they were, but it's not totally gone. And then I thought, well, maybe long-term rentals are the answer and a manager, because they'll do everything. They don't, they call you up with bullshit. So I have long-term rentals too, and I don't fully love them. I feel like I'm managing the manager, so yeah, it's uh my answer is syndication. That's my new answer.

Why less can be more: defining enough in real estate

SPEAKER_01 16:18

Nice, nice. So you don't have to do anything, just collect the checks.

SPEAKER_03 16:22

Yes. Now would you and research on the front end? You have to make sure that who you invest with is good.

SPEAKER_01 16:27

Now, would you sell off your portfolio just to get rid of it?

SPEAKER_03 16:33

I think I will slowly. Um, there are tax implications to selling real estate and real estate, especially as someone who qualifies as a rep status. So I'm a real estate professional. It is beneficial for me to own some real estate. So I'm trying to keep some of my like favorite low problem properties. Um, we'll see. But like I'm in the process of selling one now, and I'm just kind of like, yeah, let me just like get rid of one every once in a while.

SPEAKER_01 17:00

Okay. You don't want to take a big tax hit in the same year, right?

SPEAKER_02 17:04

No, I'm trying not to pay taxes as much as I can.

SPEAKER_01 17:09

But you know, people say that, and and you know, it's it's it's great to avoid taxes, but if you're gonna make a couple million off a property and you gotta pay 500 grand, you still made 1.5 million. You know what I'm saying? It's still you're still in the plus, right? If you look at it like that.

SPEAKER_03 17:24

If you look technically, I'm just like, no, you roll out into a 1031 exchange, you can still put that in the syndicator, it's all about how you sell, you know.

SPEAKER_01 17:34

Yeah, yeah, yeah. You're I mean, and then and that's true. And and I've been following a lot of uh gurus, as you say, as they say, and then uh I learned how to do the depreciation thing, the advanced depreciation stuff like that. So on more houses, I can I went, you know, and and was able to do the bonus depreciation, advanced depreciation, take it all in the first year, get a huge tax break. But then the next year I'm like, sell. Yeah, yeah. If well if you sell the rally, yeah. But it would what it puts you on is a treadmill because oh crap, this year I have to buy a house or two. So I can get that again to counter the income I made this year. It kind of puts you on that. It's a good problem to have, but if if you you know, if you're trying to downscale, it's kind of like I don't know, it puts you on a different treadmill, but it just depends on what you want, you know.

SPEAKER_03 18:22

I think it's interesting because

Writing the 30-Day Stay book at the perfect moment

SPEAKER_03 18:24

online you'll see people are like, oh, I never pay taxes, it's great. And it's like, yes, there are ways not to pay taxes, but basically you have to invest everything you make. I think people don't talk about that. So it's like, can you just buy food and that's it? And then invest everything. So I still feel like I live frugal and that I live very cash poor because as soon as I have a little bit to spend, I'm like, oh my god, I have to find an investment so I can get a tax deduction. So that's the reality, kids.

SPEAKER_01 18:53

All right. So what made you write a book?

SPEAKER_03 18:56

Oh man, I want to write another book. I want to write one on creative finance and get it out soon because I just feel like that is a wave that may pass. Um I gosh, I just had a cool idea. That 30-day stay came to me at a Bigger Pockets conference a couple years ago. I was standing in front of their bookstore and I was like, man, I really want to write a book, but what hasn't already been done? Because they had so many books then and now they have like three times as many books. But I thought they must have covered all the topics now, and there's nothing new to do. And then later that day I went into my room and I was thinking, oh, about like midterm rentals. Is that like too niche? Like, would that be a thing? Um, and it turns out they were pretty interested in it, and we turned it around really fast, and it came out in the perfect time. So we just got really lucky

Insurance claims and corporate housing: the gold rush is over

SPEAKER_03 19:49

about that. But I think it's a great book. Proud of it.

SPEAKER_01 19:52

Yeah, yeah, it did come out at the perfect time because people were still, it was still kind of new to a lot of people, you know. Yeah, um, Jesse was out there doing his thing in in California, Jesse Voskis, um, a couple of the friends of the show. But once I oh my gosh, I remember when once I discovered these uh 30-day plus like insurance claims and stuff like that. I was like, whoa, why would I even want to do Airbnb anymore? It was just mind-blowing, you know, these checks that these insurance companies were writing. I was like, holy crap, that's like double what I would make on an Airbnb that month, you know, and I don't gotta do nothing. I mean, just I gotta get them in there. And it was it was a gold rush at first. I mean, you know, people like like you and Jesse, you know, telling everybody about it, it really spread like wildfire, and people started, you know, getting into all the sites that were on to attract midterm rentals. But at first it was nice. I mean, I mean, you'd submit something and you get approval like quick and get them in there quick because everything was like, Oh, I was like, when do they need to be in there? ASAP. Everything is ASAP, right? Now it got to a point, you know, where oh, well, we have to run it through the adjuster, and like man. They could approve it, they could deny it. Um, yeah, it's so it's a little, it's a little harder now. I'm still, you know, we're still scoring quite a few, but because we've been in we formed relationships, and you mentioned that it's it's it's powerful to get these relationships with these corporate housing providers that know you can provide something uh clean and safe and all that for their clients, and they know you know how to do a lease and all these little things, you know, and you can knock it out in like in like an hour for them, or you know, less than an hour. You I can get things boom, boom, boom, knock it out real quick and have and have it to their desk because they they they just need to clear the paperwork real quick, get it to the adjusters, get the adjusters to approve it. But like all that being said, it's even getting more difficult because the the people are being more picky. Because I get you know, instead of just too many options, again, like a hundred houses thrown at them. Well, oh, we can stay here on the beach overlooking the mountains. I don't know, whatever. But um, anyways, do you I feel like Jesse had the

SPEAKER_03 22:00

Heyday because he started the midterm rental space in 2015. Like, can you imagine there was nobody doing it? Like, I started in 2020 and I thought, like, whoa, this is crazy. Um, but I remember hearing about it probably in 2018 or 2017 from a friend of mine who was a nurse. So if only I'd got on it sooner. I never really had much luck with insurance days. And I think it was because my properties are in five different states. So it's it's so much easier when you have them all in one town and you can be like the guy of the town. You know, you're that contact that everybody starts to know. So I think that really worked well for Jesse, and maybe that works well for you. So that's awesome. I mean, I wish that that had worked out the way that a lot of the teachers talk about it. Um, but I feel skeptical now. I definitely have a friend. Um, he's outside of oh, it's not Nashville, it's Memphis. He's outside of Memphis, and he's got like 12 places, and he is the guy of Memphis, and they always call him, and he gets all of the insurance days, and he is killing it with these properties. A lot of them he picked up on creative finance, and it's just like insane that you can get a property in the 200s and then you can rent it for over 5,000 a month. I'm like, okay, that's great. I wish I could have done that. So I mean, yeah, there's so many people out there with their little niche that are just killing it.

SPEAKER_01 23:29

It's such a cool industry because I I mean, back in the olden days, you if you wanted to own a rental, you owned uh, you know, one rental, maybe two, and then it's just long-term rental, and then you pay a company to manage it for you. And that was pretty much it, right? And and so I guess Airbnb came along and totally, you know, flipped the script. And so people were able to, you know, make more money if they had a rental property, and then they were getting ripped buying rental properties just to be Airbnb. You know, it just it just tried, you know, the way the way it changed, and then um from the the Airbnb stays, short-term rental stays, the people figured out the 30-day plus stays and getting the midterm rentals, you know, and a lot of help uh from you and Jesse. But but then it became that market, then it became like the subject to thing going on. I mean, it's just like so it just so many tentacles came out of the basic concept of just renting out a house uh uh for some for a family to stay in.

SPEAKER_03 24:25

Yeah. Yeah, I mean, this is really exciting. That's what I love about real estate, is that it hasn't bored me yet, right? It's like, oh, when I think I know it all, and I'm like, okay, I'm kind of bored, I can't listen to any more podcasts. It's like I learn a new angle. Like this whole syndication thing, I still barely know what I'm doing, right? It's like there's so much intricacy about how to vet operators, and there's so many different areas and classes of real estate. I've gotten into investing in warehouses, like distribution warehouses. And I'm like, what? I knew nothing about that before, right? And learning about mobile home parks, and there's just so many cool things to learn. So I think it's it's gonna be a forever journey.

SPEAKER_01 25:08

That I saw, I saw in speaking of that, and investor girl Brit, you know, investor girl Britt from bigger pockets and all that. But she's doing syndications in self-storage. I'm like, Yeah, self-storage syndications. I mean, there's the syndication for everything, but I was like, damn, self-storage is the next is the next frontier, I guess.

SPEAKER_03 25:27

Yeah, I mean, that's a great one. I think the one that is a good frontier, especially if you qualify as a real estate professional, which I imagine you do, um, is the mobile home parks because they have the highest cost segregation. So that bonus depreciation you're talking about, that one gives you the most. But uh self-storage is pretty high up there too.

SPEAKER_01 25:47

Hmm. And um, yeah, usually you get you get, I don't know about self-storage, but you get help from the government and you're and you're buying in the uh and the what are they called? The recovery zones, the what is that called?

SPEAKER_03 25:59

The there's some opportunity zones.

SPEAKER_01 26:01

Opportunity zones, yes, yes. And that's that's something I'd like to look at because I mean they're everywhere. Every city has uh, you know, the poor areas and stuff like that, but you can go in there and you can buy stuff with you know, get huge tax breaks. Uh that's another, that's another uh facet if you if you could tolerate that you know investing in a certain way. There's so many things to do. So do you have do you have any current like tips and tricks for people can land midterm rentals that you know since the game has changed quite a bit since you wrote the book, do you have any any like advice how people can can land them nowadays?

SPEAKER_03 26:40

That's interesting. I mean, I would say that definitely you want to start

December 2023: bonus depreciation deadline buying frenzy

SPEAKER_03 26:43

with finding a market that really works. And if you're looking at investing out of state and you're like, well, I can't go to a meetup, how am I gonna do that? There are so many groups online, like midterm rental groups or just investor groups and ones that are specific to an area. So you're like, oh, I really want to invest in Arizona. You can look up groups by city or state. So that's a good way just to kind of get an idea. And then from there you can network with people or you can reach out to me. I have a really great list of uh investor-friendly agents. And then I also get a lot of creative finance deals. So if someone is looking for that specifically, maybe come look at my deals. I have like a folder of them that I update all the time. Um, but creative financing is gonna help you get that edge over what you'd be seeing right now in the market because prices are still high, interest rates are still high, and that kind of kills your cash on cash return. In some markets, midterm rentals are not making that much more than a long-term rental. And so you want to know that ahead, right? It's like if you're only gonna make $300 a month more from furnishing a property, it's gonna take you a really long time to pay off $15,000 of furniture, right? And see that return. So you just need to make those decisions in an educated way.

SPEAKER_01 27:59

Nice. Did now do people um ring your phone off the hook uh in December when they're like, oh crap, I need to buy something. I need to buy something. What do you get?

SPEAKER_03 28:08

Yes, yes. December was my busiest month, which was refreshing because when I was just a regular agent, I mean, I've you know, I'm an investor-friendly agent, but not focusing on creative finance, people were like December was dead. Like we have seasons in real estate, you know, and nobody was buying then because it's winter and people have holidays. But this year, because we were kind of like running out of this nice bonus depreciation period, um, people were crazy. It was literally up to like the end of the year where we're like 10 days out, and I have to tell people like there is no way we can close now, like it's just not happening. Uh yeah, but it was a great month for me.

SPEAKER_01 28:50

Yeah, that's awesome. Now, now bonus depreciation. Uh, I've heard rumblings that they might go ahead and extend that another year. Is that true?

SPEAKER_03 28:58

What are you what are you yes? And if they do that, I've heard that they're going to reenact 2023. Is that what they're saying? I think so. So they're voting on it now. Hopefully, we'll know pretty soon. But that means we would have a hundred percent. This year is supposed to just be 60 bonus depreciation for cost segregation. So if you can get a hundred percent, that just really helps people save on their taxes. And God knows we need it. So um, I'm really hoping that happens. Plus, that would be a real big bonus push for my business. People are gonna be uh knocking down my door. So, yeah, I think it will happen. I, you know, in election years, people tend to give you some bonuses and benefits to to make you kind of veer one side or the other. One of the other things that's exciting that may be rolling out is the tax credit. I don't know if you've heard about that, that there is a first-time home buyer tax credit that Biden just announced and it hasn't fully passed, but they're kind of putting it into motion. Um, and what's cool about that is we haven't had a tax credit since 2010, like a really long time.

2024 first-time homebuyer tax credit: $10,000 over two years

SPEAKER_03 30:08

And one thing for people to understand is that a first-time homebuyer to qualify for that, you just haven't had to um you have to have not had a primary in the last three years. So if you're an investor, you rent the place that you live in, but you own a bunch of properties, you can still qualify for the tax credit, which is kind of awesome. Um, so maybe kind of look into that if you if you think you might qualify, but it's supposed to give people five thousand dollars off for two consecutive years. Um, and that's nice. Like, who doesn't want a little extra free money?

SPEAKER_01 30:44

$5,000 off for two years. You get $5,000 returned for two years.

SPEAKER_03 30:50

Yeah, and so that's supposed to yeah, a total of $10,000, and that's supposed to equival uh uh be the equivalent of like 1.5% less on your interest rate, and so it's like a savings of yeah, it's four hundred dollars a month. So if that's supposed to help like 3.5 million families uh afford getting into a home. So I'm pretty excited about it. But you also have a secondary tax credit if you are getting out of a starter home. So you have to look into like what qualifies as starter home, it has to be kind of uh below the average price point of where you live. But if you're getting out of a starter home and you're upgrading into the next level home, they'll give you a ten thousand dollar credit because they're trying to get people to sell their properties and move around so that there's actually inventory in this in this uh country. Yeah, so anyway, look into them because those can be great opportunities. You're like sitting on the sidelines, go buy something.

SPEAKER_01 31:47

So, what happens if you move out? You know, you upgrade to the next house, but you keep the other house as a rental. You don't qualify for that?

SPEAKER_02 31:54

No, I think you have to sell it.

SPEAKER_01 31:55

You have to sell it, yeah. Can can I sell it to my corporation?

SPEAKER_03 32:01

I don't know, I would want to piss off the tax guy.

SPEAKER_01 32:07

So I I do remember, like you said, 2010 was the last time, but I bought you know my very first house in 2009, and it was the I guess the Obama tax credit, and it was like 8,000 bucks. They sent me a check for 8,000 bucks in the tax, you know. That's dope. It's like, wow, that's pretty cool. Um, and like they haven't done it since, I guess.

SPEAKER_03 32:25

So no, and I mean in 20 like 20 or 2009, I don't even know how to say that anymore. Uh 2009, $8,000 was a lot of money, like way more than 10,000 is today. I'm like, guys, it's a little cheap. Can you do something better?

unknown 32:41

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 32:43

And so um, well, that's good news. That's good news. It should keep you very busy. And I have I did have a ton of questions. Um, well, it well, I want to point out, you know, it's it's it's so cool about this industry, about the you know, the investing in in real estate and all that stuff and short-term, midterm. And so many, so many women are doing it, right? And and that, and that's you know, I'll go way back in time. You know, I remember and I'm I'm a girl dad. I got three daughters. So uh I I I'm just blown away by how smart they are. And and um, and I remember in school, in elementary school, way back, you know, I'm 46 years old. So so I remember way back then, I was like, man, the girls are obviously smarter than us dudes. I always I just always had that thought. I was like, they're they're just they're way smarter than us. But I I remember how the teachers would coddle to the boys anyway. And it was, you know, asking them more questions, uh, promoting them more in a way. I remember that just just like why why the girls are smarter, but it's because they're coming from a past where you know the the guys owned everything, they did everything, they had all the jobs, and then the women, you know, had a different role in society, and the and the teachers were coming, the mostly female teachers were coming from that. But the way that's changing, and the way that girls feel like you know, they can do anything. My daughters, you know, there's no limit, they don't have any limitations in their head. Like my my little six-year-old, she's she's writing books. She's this is her new favorite thing now. Just sit there and draw these pictures out, and then we'll sit there and we'll make a book together with staple and then she goes, she'll read the book. And it's like the coolest thing to her. I'm like, wow, this is so cool. Oh, yeah, yeah, it's so neat. And and um, but the way that it's been just showing in this industry in particular. I mean, you look at anything online, any I don't say gurus, anybody that's on Instagram, you know, promoting uh this this industry, it's it's I would say it's at least half female, maybe more, from what I see.

SPEAKER_03 34:39

I would say it's a lot less than that, but I I definitely think in the furniture rental space, women have an advantage. And I think that's so great for us to have a place where it's almost an easier fit because a lot of women in this space have a natural inclination towards hospitality and taking care of people and nurturing and creating beautiful spaces. So um, you know, it doesn't have to be what you're good at. You don't have to be a designer, but it can be maybe a natural fit to just feel like, yeah, I want to take care of people. How can I make this space comfortable for them? That maybe some guys don't think of right off the bat, right? They're just like numbers and efficiency. And of course, these are just very uh generalized ideas of gender, but um, it is nice to kind of have those spaces where I do see lots more women in this world. Um, and it's it's very encouraging. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 35:36

I I guess uh perhaps I meant by yeah, the the furnished, the furnished rental space, not the whole investing space in general. But from what I follow, it's it's a lot of a lot of uh female, a lot of women doing like, and like you said, and they and they're doing this cool designs, you know, and they're saying why they're doing these things, how they're how they're you know, treating their guests, and and then you look at and you look at the dude, the guru dudes out there, and it is numbers, you know, they have this wipe left. This is how I was able to you know reach financial freedom with three rentals and it shows you the numbers and this and that, and and and then they go into like how to how to screw overb not screw over Airbnb, but how to like uh take advantage of certain it it is more like that, whereas the women are promoting the hospitality and cool design and stuff and that that aspect. So um yeah, yeah, you you you you nailed it right on the head. It's it's two different takes on the same the same industry.

SPEAKER_02 36:29

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 36:31

But anyways, that that's I just thought I'd point that out. But but uh because I follow a lot of people and and then you see these conferences, and then a lot of a lot of them are still doing the you know, they're doing like women's conferences, uh Julie George and um uh Tatiana's doing a bunch. There's there's I don't know, it's it's a yeah, it's a cool there's not there's nothing holding anybody back, and and I love and minorities and minorities are big in this industry too. I I love that. Um so, anyways, it's yeah, I just thought I'd point that out to you, but you already knew you already knew that, Siona.

SPEAKER_03 37:01

Yeah, I mean it's a it's definitely a passion of mine to help women just get a leg up and feel more independent, um, and kind of work towards financial independence in general, because I think maybe I've just seen a lot of women feel like uncomfortable in finance. They're like, Oh, okay, yeah, I I want to understand this, but I've always sort of deferred to somebody else. And I think it's just important for us to kind of take that responsibility back and and understand it. And it doesn't have to be overly complicated. So it's just fun to try to help women get get going.

SPEAKER_01 37:37

That's cool. One thing you mentioned in in uh in an Instagram a while back was um investing while considering climate change. Now, now that was that was interesting because I mean this

Investing with climate change in mind: avoiding the Florida hot potato

SPEAKER_01 37:51

last summer was just freaking brutal um in Texas. I know that much, but a lot of the whole it seemed like the whole country was on fire last summer. But um, anyways, so what did you mean by like investing with climate change in mind? Just everybody's gonna start moving north because it's getting too damn hot down south, or what?

SPEAKER_03 38:07

I don't think it's that simple. I wish it was that easy to kind of get an idea of that. But I've been working with a climate researcher and trying to get some clear ideas of different areas that may be less prone to natural disasters. So um that would be like flood, fire, hurricanes, you know, all that kind of stuff that can create a lot of um difficulty over time. Because what people don't always think about is that you're looking at an investment for 30 years, right? So there is going to be a point where mortgage companies are not going to want to lend in certain areas because the outlook over 30 years is not gonna be good, or maybe they're gonna do shorter-term loans. But there are places like Florida where it could become a little bit of a hot potato where you don't want to be the one holding that property when you can't sell it again because now that nobody can get a loan, right? So it's just things to consider over the long term, and I hope technology saves us and we don't have to worry about climate change, but um, so far that's not the truth. So yeah, we're gonna just kind of see how it goes. But I think as someone looking at an investment horizons for a longer period of time, it's important to just do a little bit of research.

SPEAKER_01 39:28

Yeah. And so, and so it's funny, you know, people can be people believe what they want about climate change. And you know, there's good arguments on either side, but yeah, I always go go back to follow the money and and look at Florida, like you mentioned. You people can't get insured out there. I mean, or insurance is like like you know, tripled, quadrupled in price over the last couple of years because the okay, you might not believe in climate change, but the insurance companies sure do because there's being more hurricanes, more floods, more fires, everything that you mentioned. But um so you follow the money and and it kind of reveals uh what's really going on in a way. But so that was that was an interesting post. Yeah, you always make interesting posts. I I love following you. Um so so you wrote a book, you're gonna you're gonna work on the next book. Um that's that's cool. Uh let me see. What are some of these other questions before we hop off? What is okay? Here's a here's a crazy question. What is some of the worst advice you ever got? Because I'm sure like I don't know, in in everybody's um investing life, you get a you get a lot of invest uh advice from let's say the uncle or the aunt. Oh, I remember so-and-so bought a rental house and someone trashed it and blah blah blah. They lost so much money. Or what are some what are some of the I mean it's just it's kind of like you gotta block it out, but what are some of the like worst advice or people try to put you on paths that they think you should go on, or something like that? What sticks out to you?

SPEAKER_03 40:58

Yeah, I was thinking about this person the other day because uh I saw she had a listing somewhere. Um, but it was a friend of mine at the time who's a real estate agent, and I asked her like if I should get into that. And I wish I could remember the year. God, it must have been like 2019 or even 2018 or 17. Anyway, um, I had a curiosity about it, and I wish I'd started sooner. I didn't actually get my license as a real estate agent until 2020, and I definitely see why she would have said don't do it. And I don't think it's for everyone and not for even every investor. But if you're an investor buying more than two properties a year, it could be you want to just do your numbers. Um, and if you're somebody who's gonna really lean into it, I mean, it can be life-changing money that you can make being a real estate agent. So I definitely think it's a good career. But if you're someone who's gonna just have to do it, it's a really hard career too. So um that I wish I'd started sooner because I've always been in the real estate space. So it's a natural thing to be able to even just do referrals, right? So I wish I'd done that. And then I'd say just in general, get advice from people that you want to be like rather than people like in your friend or family circle, right? Because a lot of people, as you're getting into investing in real estate, are gonna think that you're crazy. They've never done that or they've heard horror stories. Um, I dated someone who told me that I would never let you buy rentals with our money. And you know, that didn't last, but um, that was before I had so money, right? And then now I have like 12 rentals and all this stuff. So I think you really have to kind of look towards the direction you want to go and then keep like the blinders on so you don't get distracted.

SPEAKER_01 42:52

That's great advice. That's great advice. Just block it out. Um what you had also turnkey. Did you you mentioned turnkey uh and some of your posts? What why are you excited about turnkey properties?

SPEAKER_03 43:04

I think it can be a great way for

Turnkey properties and new construction deals in the fives

SPEAKER_03 43:06

somebody to get started who maybe doesn't have the time, you know. So if you're looking for tax deductions, real estate investing has a lot that can be really beneficial. And then with turnkey, the way that it works is that you generally buy a property that's either new construction or recently rehabbed, then that same company is placing tenants and doing the management, or they have like an offshoot of their company doing the management. And so it's kind of a one-stop shop. You like start and um buy and then manage and everything through that same vehicle. And so it's really easy if you're someone like a doctor or a lawyer who maybe you make a good income and you want to be investing it wisely, but you just don't really know enough or don't have the time, right? So you can find an operator that you really like and then test it out after a few and then build up to a portfolio pretty quickly. So I I love that. And with new construction, A lot of times they have in-house lenders and they offer really good rates. So I'm still seeing stuff in the fives for new construction, which can be great. So yeah, I think turnkey is a good option. I think a lot of the times people think, oh, turnkey's cheating, or you know, I'm not gonna make enough, but there are still really good deals out there, and of course you pay a little bit of a premium because someone is making it really easy for you, but I still see ones that work.

SPEAKER_01 44:28

Especially new construction, right? Less maintenance.

SPEAKER_03 44:31

Yeah, I mean, you may not have much maintenance for the first like five or ten years. It's pretty great. Yeah, the long-term rentals I have are all new construction.

SPEAKER_01 44:41

That's cool. Um blogs, you sp you you brought up blogs earlier. Did you follow uh Mr. Money Mustache back in the day?

SPEAKER_03 44:48

I did. We're personal friends now because we live in the same area, so that's great. Um, I also really like Afford Anything. I think she's kind of transferred towards um more like YouTube, but that's Paula Pant. So that's a really good blog. Oh, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 45:04

So so what is the difference? I mean, there's Mr. Money Mustache, you know, it's he's teaching the financial independence, retire early, if fire financial independence, and and then you got the Dave Ramsey on the other side. And Dave Ramsey's totally 100% against debt, right? Is it Mr. Money Mustache? He doesn't care how you do it as long as you do it, or is there two different philosophies there?

SPEAKER_03 45:26

Yeah, I mean, Mr. Money Mustache is really about simplicity and being frugal as a path. So I think that it's really easy to get there quickly if you're not spending much money because you don't have very high needs. So that's that's a great way to get started. And especially if you're young, like fresh out of college, you're used to just rationing ramen noodles and stuff. You don't change your lifestyle too quickly. Um, it's easy to just save everything you make as you start making more. Um, Dave Ramsey, I haven't really looked into his strategy too much, but I know that he doesn't like debt to the point that he doesn't even like mortgages. And I think the distinction for people is that there's good debt and bad debt. And of course, if you're coming from a place where you're hundreds of thousands in debt with bad debt, like credit card debt, that can feel really hard. Or if you've just been burdened by student loan debt, which is not necessarily bad, but can be very extensive and people get sort of trapped in a lot of student loan debt. He's got great pay down debt strategies.

Financial independence philosophies: Mr. Money Mustache vs. Dave Ramsey

SPEAKER_03 46:32

The thing that I think is is kind of off base is that he's not letting people get mortgages, and mortgages are such a great way to leverage. So it takes so much longer to save up $500,000 to buy a house than it is to just save up 3% down and get into that house and then start building your equity. So, you know, I guess it's just like taking a grain of salt from each person, right? You like cherry pick what information really works, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 47:00

Yeah, and I I studied him a little bit. I I guess he does he's cool with the 15% mortgage, he's cool with that.

SPEAKER_04 47:07

Okay. Um, you mean the 15 year old?

SPEAKER_01 47:10

Yeah, 15 year mortgage. No, I'm sorry, 15. Yeah, that'd be great. Uh 15 year mortgage as opposed to 30. So he is, he does allow you a little bit of debt, just but just mortgage. But uh yeah, I mean both both philosophies can work. I guess it's important to to know what you're to have a plan with your money. A lot of friends, you know, I guess I guess I you know I still have my day job, I go there a couple days a week. It's like, you know, just more like a part-time thing now, just keep the benefits. But um, the friends at work know me uh as you know, an investor, uh the guy that owns multiple houses and does the Airbnb thing. So I'm kind of you know, they know me, they know me for that, but just asking me questions and stuff. And so I get questions a lot of time with the with their kids. Oh, what should you know? My kids gonna graduate, my kids gonna, you know, is just doing start their career. What should they do? House hack. And I that's one of the ones I tell them. Like, house hack. Don't go start writing, you know. They kids get excited, they get a little bit of money from the first job and they want to go spend $2,000 a month on rent, you know, whatever. I tell them, of course, house hack. House hack and then fill up the other, well, the house is too expensive. Fill up the other rooms with roommates, whatever. Do what you gotta do. Um, but I mean, I I just pretty much tell them if they're not gonna do the real, oh, they don't really like real estate, or they might do the arbitrage Airbnb. Uh, okay. Yeah, you can ask me a million questions and not do nothing. That's usually how it goes. But anyways, I just say, you know, if they can live off half their paycheck or 75% of their paycheck and just put 25% in mutual funds, I mean not or mutual funds, or what do they call it, index funds, or whatever funds. 25% and 50% would be great. I think it'd be successful and then stay out of debt. I just say it's just simple. But if they want to play the debt game, yeah, get into some mortgages and do it that way. Don't go get the fancy, shiny, expensive car. Uh, don't go buy a McMansion because then you're stuck too. But um, you know, it's just those simple philosophies that I was never taught, you know, uh growing up, you know, and y'all go get credit cards. Oh, you get all these credit cards. Uh in but, anyways, I I just try to keep advice simple for for people. What are your advice to to youngsters? I mean, you you mentioned the househacking.

SPEAKER_03 49:13

Yeah. Yeah, I mean, house hacking, I think, is the fastest way

House hacking a one-bedroom apartment and geo arbitrage

SPEAKER_03 49:17

to get to financial independence for sure, and to just build equity into a home, that can be great. Um, but definitely if you can save 50% of your income, which sounds a lot, sounds like so much, because a lot of the financial educators out there are talking about just 10%. But the difference between saving 10% of your income means that you won't be able to retire until you're in your 60s or 70s. Saving 50% can make it where you're early retired five to 10 years down the road, right? So it's just really a difference, especially the younger you do it, because that money is compounding over time. So, you know, getting your kids from their very first job into a Roth IRA, um, that can be a great thing because they're just building um, you know, for their retirement, which sounds like a long time from you know, 18, but it is important to just start building in those things. The thing I would say about a 15-year mortgage is I don't love that idea until you're on your last property. So, what I mean by that is that if you're still in a place where you're like, I want a couple of investment properties or I'm gonna keep buying down the road, you want that time horizon on your loan as long as possible because you want to get in for as little as possible and you want to have as little per month that you're paying towards that mortgage. Yes, that means you pay more in interest, but when you are ready to pay stuff down, then you can do double payments or whatever you want to do. But that just has to mean that you're not accumulating any more mortgages, right? So you got to have like a little bit of a plan going. Um, the last thing I'll say about house hacking is you can house hack even with a one-bedroom apartment. So that's how I got started. It's all I could afford. And I live in an expensive town, but the way I did it is that I would go do pet sits. And so I'd be outside of my house and I would be renting out my place on Airbnb. Most places you can rent your personal home if it's your primary and you live there half the year or whatever. Or it was traveling. So a lot of what people do is like geo arbitrage where they go and they live in a cheaper place. You know, lots of people go to Colombia or Southeast Asia. Um, and you can live for you know, maybe a quarter of the price of what you would live off of from home. And so I've heard of people being early retired from one Airbnb property because the where they're living is so cheap, right? So there are ways to do it so much faster than I think a lot of people realize.

SPEAKER_01 51:46

And and that's one that that's a good, that's a fascinating one right there, the geo arbitrage. Because, you know, I I I someone someone has commented on uh on one of these one of these posts, and and they said, Well, I live in an expensive place, so I you know, I is it better for me to rent here and then out of town have my my rental properties or whatever. And I said, Well, why don't you just buy something and live in it? I mean, you can get it for three percent if you're living in that city. Well, but you know, it's cheaper to rent here than to buy something. And okay, the excuses uh the only way I see that it it would be better to in my in my opinion, to rent something and then have your investment property somewhere else is let's say it's Mexico, South of South America, or or other places where it's cheaper, where okay, over there they don't really have the mortgage thing like we got here. You have to go buy something cash, right? And so yeah, I'm not gonna go to Mexico and spend $200,000 on a pro I can rent something for like a thousand bucks a month, really nice, you know, up to $1,500. Yeah, really nice. Uh and so I see that, you know, you know, spending going and renting something somewhere in South America or somewhere cheap instead of going and and trying to buy something. Whereas in the state anywhere in the United States, you say you can make it work, right? You can you can put something three percent down and oh yeah, but the but the mortgage, but fill up the rooms with with people, you know, fill up uh house hack that thing. All right. So, anyways, uh just it's just uh limited, as

Pet sitting worldwide: living mortgage-free while traveling

SPEAKER_01 53:11

I say, limited beliefs or whatever. Um yeah, sorry, yeah, this is a fun conversation. We're all over the place. Thank you. Thank you again, Ziona, for hopping on. Is there anything else you'd like to say to people out there that want to invest or I would just say reach out, you know?

SPEAKER_03 53:27

I have so many resources and I'm happy to help. So find me on Instagram, like you mentioned a few times. And then um, I also have a website, ZionamacIntyre.com.

SPEAKER_01 53:40

Awesome. Reach out to her. She will, she's she's cool, she's not bougie, she'll she'll she'll respond. Uh and she's uh little bougie. You love your travels, you love your travels, but with doggies, I guess you can hang out with the doggies. Oh, I was gonna ask you any any crazy uh pet sitting stories, all the pet sittings you've done.

SPEAKER_03 54:01

I don't know, not really. It's not that crazy. I mean, I think it's like it's almost the same as going to an Airbnb, except you have a dog or a cat, right? I mean, we've seen it ones that have reptiles, and we've stayed at ones with chickens. There are ones with horses, if you know how to care for horses. So, I mean, there's a full uh range of types of pets that could make it more interesting. I think um we had one without packas, which was really fun. They're actually very affectionate animals, so that can be a cool experience. And you know, we still rent out our primary on Airbnb and try to travel like four months a year, four to six months. So it works out really well for us because we live rent or mortgage free because it's all covered by Airbnb rentals. Um, and sometimes we make a little extra, so it's great.

SPEAKER_01 54:51

And what and what's the rule with that that you can in Denver you can rent out your place on Airbnb?

SPEAKER_03 54:56

Um, yeah, I'm in Boulder, so we're like 40 minutes from Denver, and our rule is six months. You have to live in the home at least six months of the year, and yeah, that's easy for us.

SPEAKER_01 55:07

Oh, perfect. That makes sense. You travel half the year and rent out half the year, perfect.

SPEAKER_03 55:11

Totally.

SPEAKER_01 55:12

Well, cool. Where can people find you, Xiona? Uh Instagram, Xiona McIntyre.

SPEAKER_03 55:16

Um yeah, Instagram and my website are the easiest. I have a YouTube as well. I just search my name. I'm very searchable. Not that many Xiannas out there. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 55:27

Cool. Well, thank you for hopping on again and wish you the best of luck in the future. And um, yeah, Live Let Thrive out. See y'all.

SPEAKER_00 55:36

Bye. Thank you for tuning in to this week's episode of Live Let Thrive. Be sure to tune in next week for all the latest in the world of Airbnb and all that entails. Bye bye.